Jumping up on a rotating Earth

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of a man jumping vertically at the equator on his linear and angular momentum, particularly in the context of the Earth's rotation. Participants explore the conservation of momentum principles and the implications of changing radius during the jump.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how linear momentum in the horizontal axis is affected when a man jumps vertically on the rotating Earth, suggesting that an increase in radius would lead to a decrease in linear momentum.
  • Another participant asserts that the angular and linear momentum of the system (earth+man) will be conserved, indicating that the man can change his momentum while the total momentum remains constant.
  • A later reply clarifies that while the radius for calculating angular momentum increases, the angular velocity must decrease, implying that linear momentum remains constant.
  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the relationship between the variables in the equation for angular momentum, suggesting that an increase in radius and constant linear momentum would imply an increase in angular momentum, which contradicts the conservation principle.
  • Another participant emphasizes that angular momentum is determined by the vector cross product, noting that only the component of linear momentum at right angles to the radius is relevant.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between linear and angular momentum during the jump, with some asserting that linear momentum remains constant while others question this interpretation. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of the jump on momentum conservation.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made about external forces and the specifics of the jump, as well as the dependence on the definitions of momentum and angular momentum in the context of the jump.

Guywithquestions
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Hello,

I know it suppose to be a relatively basic question but still somehow I can't fully understand it.
Let assume that a man jumps vertically on the equator, while the Earth is of course rotating. What will happen to the value of his linear momentum in the horizontal axis?
It seems to me that if the angular momentum must be conserved, than the linear momentum must decrease, because:
J = p x r
And since r is increased due to the jump
p must decrease
Is it correct? If so how is it possible since both angular momentum and linear momentum must be conserved?

Thank you kindly.
 
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The angular and linear momentum of the system (earth+man) will be conserved (because there are by assumption ~no external forces or torques on the system). The man, depending upon how he jumps, can change momentum for himself (and exactly equally and oppositely for the earth).
 
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Guywithquestions said:
Summary: If a man jumps off the equator, What will happen to the value of his linear momentum in the horizontal axis?

Hello,

I know it suppose to be a relatively basic question but still somehow I can't fully understand it.
Let assume that a man jumps vertically on the equator, while the Earth is of course rotating. What will happen to the value of his linear momentum in the horizontal axis?
It seems to me that if the angular momentum must be conserved, than the linear momentum must decrease, because:
J = p x r
And since r is increased due to the jump
p must decrease
Is it correct? If so how is it possible since both angular momentum and linear momentum must be conserved?

Thank you kindly.
His linear momentum remains constant. So while the radius for calculating angular momentum increases his angular velocity with respect to the center of rotation must decrease.

Below is a quick vector diagram of the situation:
The green arrow is his Vertical jump speed
Blue arrow is his tangential velocity due to the rotation of the Earth
Red arrows are his resultant velocity broken into two sections of equal time.
Cyan lines represent the angles swept out by the radial line.
Note that for the first time section of his trajectory the cyan line has swept through a larger angle than it does during the second time section of equal length. The cyan line grows in length but rotates slower as time goes on.
Momentum.png
 
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Thank you for answering!
My problem rised from the equation j=p x r
And since r is increased and p (linear momentum) stays constant it seems as though j (angular momentum) must increase as well (contrary to staying constant).
If I understand correctly from your drawing it can be seen that the angle between the radius and the velocity vector increases and therefore the cross product stays the same over time.
 
Guywithquestions said:
And since r is increased and p (linear momentum) stays constant it seems as though j (angular momentum) must increase as well (contrary to staying constant).
Remember that angular momentum is not just the product of the magnitudes of r and p. It is the vector cross product. One way to understand the cross product is that it is not p that counts. It is only the component of p that is at right angles to r.
 

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