Karma & Easy Majors: Is College Worth It?

[Pengwuino]

Some days I really do hope karma exists and all my hard work will result in at least a decent paying job that I enjoy. On the other hand, what the hell is with these easy majors? I know people in various majors outside of the hard sciences/engineers and from what they say, they must have done more work (and of the same intellectual rigor) back in elementary school. How can they really be learning anything in the first place? Whenever they accidently run into an actual course they're required to think with, it seems like they just become braindead. Some of the stories I've heard from professors and other grad students about students they've taught amazes me.

Teachers are the WORST. I would be terrified if most the teaching majors were told to educate a child of mine past the 1st grade because I think that's as far as their knowledge would permit them to go. Their courses, at least at my university, have final projects that come down to drawing pictures or making a diorama.

I truly do hope karma exists and playing around in college for 4 years doesn't translate into $80,000 a year jobs...

[/cyrus]

 

[Evo]

My dad wouldn't let me go into any hard science and insisted on me getting my degree in Business Management. I was lucky enough to get hired by AT&T and I bidded on a job in the new field of data for long distance networks. That catapulted me into a high 6 figure income.

It has now left me broke. I guess what goes around does come around.

 

[Pengwuino]

It has now left me broke. I guess what goes around does come around.

Hows that. medical bills? You do seem to hurt yourself plenty...

 

[Evo]

Hows that. medical bills? You do seem to hurt yourself plenty...

No, complex data networks have turned into a commodity. Price is more valuable than quality. No one cares anymore if it's the best, if it works most of the time, and even if the bandwidth is insufficient, so what, their workers can just wait. People have come to accept mediocre performance as normal, not realizing it is a lack of funding by management.

 

[Phyisab****]

That's a fair bit of hyperbole. That said, I think a lot of people who know what it's like to spend 100 hours a week racking your brain on seemingly unsolvable physics problems have had thoughts like that. It's easy to (for me) feel like your life is just worthless when you are dead tired and faced with daunting problems that seem to go on forever. Edit: almost forgot about sometimes being rewarded for your efforts with mind blowingly difficult exams. And then to think what other people are doing with their life. Of course it's what you signed up for so it's really not a reasonable or useful line of thought.

But yes there have been moments in my life when I have thought "I can't believe they let these people call their degree a bachelor of science."

 

[waht]

To study and learn how the world works is priceless and for everything else there is mastercard.

 

[Ronnin]

What exactly is by your definition an "Easy Major" ? Just curious. It really bothers me when I hear people go and tout their particular major against another as being somehow superior. It screams pretentiousness.

 

[Phyisab****]

In a word, communications. There is of course a rather continuous distribution. But basically anything that isn't physics, chemistry, mathematics, computer science, engineering. Biology can be, but can also vary a fair amount in difficulty. The majors where you fail if you don't bust your hind end day in and day out.

I'm sure there's some I missed don't get mad at me obviously this is pretty subjective.

 

[MotoH]

They are the ones paying for their education just like you are paying for yours, why does it matter what they go into? As long as they are happy with what they are doing you have no right to look down upon them.

 

[Ronnin]

Yep, us non science majors just phone it in every semester. I might as well have had my degree made with crayon.

 

[Phyisab****]

They are the ones paying for their education just like you are paying for yours, why does it matter what they go into? As long as they are happy with what they are doing you have no right to look down upon them.

Yep no doubt. I just get cranky sometimes.

 

[Jack21222]

They are the ones paying for their education just like you are paying for yours, why does it matter what they go into? As long as they are happy with what they are doing you have no right to look down upon them.

In what respect do we have no "right?" In the United States, we have the right to look down upon whomever we want. I'm not sure where you live, though.

 

[Phyisab****]

Lol the definitions of the word "right" does not need to be a point of contentions in this thread, there is enough controversy in this topic to last forever without going into semantics.

 

[Evo]

In what respect do we have no "right?" In the United States, we have the right to look down upon whomever we want. I'm not sure where you live, though.

Actually in the US, we believe that all men are created equal, we don't look down upon others. Where do you live?

 

[rewebster]

but a lot of people do choose a career for the money rather than what makes them happy

 

[Chi Meson]

Actually in the US, we believe that all men are created equal, we don't look down upon others.

Huh? What? We do? I know we say that we do, but...really. C'mon...

 

[Pengwuino]

What exactly is by your definition an "Easy Major" ? Just curious. It really bothers me when I hear people go and tout their particular major against another as being somehow superior. It screams pretentiousness.

Easy as in easy. There's some universities where being a history major is a joke, some where it's hard as hell. Typically one thinks of biology as a hard science but at my university it's fairly simple from what I hear. The math department is a JOKE. The department makes the major easy or hard in my opinion.

They are the ones paying for their education just like you are paying for yours, why does it matter what they go into? As long as they are happy with what they are doing you have no right to look down upon them.

I can look down on anyone I want. People can look down on me if they want. The best part is we can all complain without having to be told we have the right to or not.

Maybe it's just how the world and how education works. It feels like the science types are just in the background making the world run and doing the actual work while the "others" as I shall so belittlingly refer to them are doing all the "collegy" stuff and making the policies (at universities and beyond). Now, let's just rid ourself of the trivial notion that "if you're happy that's all that matters" because no, that's not true considering we don't get to live in a buble and are only effected by our own actions. Why in the world do we get the short end of the stick...

Then again maybe I'm annoyed at the students at my university. I've had a fairly decent bunch of students so far but everyone knows that the majority seem to be... so bad... and the worst part is that we will actually have to interact with these people in the real world! Liberal arts majors at my university, again, are the worst. Almost disgustingly bad. Then you have the pre-meds who just want A's and don't care about being educated, they just want their 4.0 so they can get into some med school and rack up $200k worth of debt so they can become a rich doctor some day. I'm going to be treated/have my kids taught by these people? :( SAD FACE.

Oh well, back to feeling superior to the "others".

 

[Evo]

Huh? What? We do? I know we say that we do, but...really. C'mon...

Yeah, I was grasping at straws there.

 

[rootX]

World will never be fair particularly when equality comes in.

 

[Proton Soup]

hmm... so what percentage of mathematicians and physics majors end up working for the government just like the education majors?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

People can look down on me if they want.

Given that pengwuinos are only three feet tall, it is pretty tough not to!

Easy majors? As if there was a choice! Haven't you figured out yet that engineers and scientists can't help themselves? Accept the fact that you have a genetic predisposition to make life difficult for yourself.

I once took an upper division economics class during a summer session. I studied two days for the entire course - one day before the midterm and one day for the final - and aced it. In physics, it was common to do homework every night until I dropped. I would do math and physics on the weeknights, and math, physics, and everything else, on the weekends. There was simply no comparison between the core classes, and everything else I took.

Had it been easier, it wouldn't have been nearly as valuable. All of those lonely, long, frustrating nights, have served me well.

 

[rewebster]

Oh well, back to feeling superior to the "others".

That one thing that happens---

someone will then always feel superior and and inferior to someone else---

-and then there's happy---there are people that will be happy doing what ever they are doing.

I don't hear people often say--'because of the job I do and have, I feel happier than him/her'.

I find that people who say that they won't be happy until this or that happens, they are usually an unhappy ( not content) person most of the time. "I'll be happy if I sell this, or I get a promotion, or when 'whatever' they get 'something'--its seems to be more based on future things than the people is doing or living (their attitude)---for as soon as they get it, they have to set their goal higher and they won't be happy again (for that short time) until they get that other thing.


Just from what I've read, I'd guess the Feynman was happier than Einstein (my perspective), because Feynman seemed happy doing whatever he was doing.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Also, I don't mean to insult anyone here, but I took a minor in engineering - essentially in fluid dynamics. Those classes weren't exactly the most challenging.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

The subjectivity in other fields probably makes it seem easier. And yeah maybe they can get by in their classes a lot easier too. Do you think though that outside of base luck those people have much chance at a decent job unless they work their ***es off?

Most art classes are probably pretty easy. How many of those students do you think will ever actually find a decent job as an artist? I think 1% would be a rather liberal figure.

 

[rootX]

I once took an upper division economics class during a summer session. I studied two days for the entire course - one day before the midterm and one day for the final - and aced it.

I think for science/engineering majors higher level economic courses are easier than the first year courses. Course I took was mostly about optimizing simple functions and attaching a meaning behind them. I found the first year course much harder where I had to read lots of definitions.

 

[Pythagorean]

What's wrong with working for the government?

 

[Ronnin]

Maybe it's just how the world and how education works. It feels like the science types are just in the background making the world run and doing the actual work while the "others" as I shall so belittlingly refer to them are doing all the "collegy" stuff and making the policies (at universities and beyond).

This is exactly the type of statement I am talking about. Us business people just sit around waiting to exploit the works of science of types. No one who wastes time studying anything relating to business could ever be intelligent enough to actually come up with an idea to market. I fondly remember all my classes in explotation.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Ronnin, at least at my school (one of the top business schools in the region) business was considered a 'hard' major. So I wouldn't be too quick to take offense -- I imagine everyone's reactions are colored by their own experiences.


Going back to the original topic:

I don't understand why you would be annoyed at easy majors. You apparently believe that it's worthwhile to take a hard major, because otherwise you'd switch (or never would have started). And your tuition is no worse than theirs -- that is, they are implicitly subsidizing your tuition.

 

[bassplayer142]

I understand some people argue that some major are not easy because blah blah blah...

But here is a story about a friend. My buddy was at another friends house who was taking a test for human resources. My friend, who has never taken the class basically answered all the questions for him and was graded instantly in the 90's. I will furthur define that my friend had never taken this course. If anyone is wondering he is in IT management.

To say that someone could sit down and take a math/eng/phys test and expect to get anything above zero is asking for a lot!

 

[chiro]

Easy as in easy. There's some universities where being a history major is a joke, some where it's hard as hell. Typically one thinks of biology as a hard science but at my university it's fairly simple from what I hear. The math department is a JOKE. The department makes the major easy or hard in my opinion.



I can look down on anyone I want. People can look down on me if they want. The best part is we can all complain without having to be told we have the right to or not.

Maybe it's just how the world and how education works. It feels like the science types are just in the background making the world run and doing the actual work while the "others" as I shall so belittlingly refer to them are doing all the "collegy" stuff and making the policies (at universities and beyond). Now, let's just rid ourself of the trivial notion that "if you're happy that's all that matters" because no, that's not true considering we don't get to live in a buble and are only effected by our own actions. Why in the world do we get the short end of the stick...

Then again maybe I'm annoyed at the students at my university. I've had a fairly decent bunch of students so far but everyone knows that the majority seem to be... so bad... and the worst part is that we will actually have to interact with these people in the real world! Liberal arts majors at my university, again, are the worst. Almost disgustingly bad. Then you have the pre-meds who just want A's and don't care about being educated, they just want their 4.0 so they can get into some med school and rack up $200k worth of debt so they can become a rich doctor some day. I'm going to be treated/have my kids taught by these people? :( SAD FACE.

Oh well, back to feeling superior to the "others".

If you're annoyed maybe you should think about doing something more challenging. Actuarial studies or medicine come to mind. I have a lot of the resources for actuarial studies and it can be pretty challenging.

Other things aside you should probably learn to be more humble even if you are a little more gifted than your counterpart associates. If you are not challenged then keep your grades up and then look at moving into some more challenging role. Also don't underestimate other people who are doing "easy" degrees. We all have a wide range of things to offer even if all of us can't do triple or path integrals (or even know what one is).

 

[Topher925]

I don't understand why you would be annoyed at easy majors.

Because apparently, people that aren't getting degrees in science/engineering are threatening national security.
http://www.smartplanet.com/business/blog/smart-takes/darpa-significant-decline-in-us-science-tech-degrees-harming-national-security/3412/

I don't necessarily agree with that article 100%, but the number of American students getting degrees in science and engineering is declining while for international students, its increasing. The US has lost its manufacturing base and has no significant resources except for coal (which is being phased out). If the US is to compete with other countries in the future, our only major source of value is going to come from intellectual property and innovation generated by our greatest minds. So, if the US starts producing a bunch of artists, elementary school teachers, and historians, what does that say about our future prospects?

Also, I don't mean to insult anyone here, but I took a minor in engineering - essentially in fluid dynamics. Those classes weren't exactly the most challenging.

Ivan, can you help me with my homework? I find fluid mechanics extremely challenging and often struggle with the subject on a weekly basis.

 

[qspeechc]

Easy as in easy. There's some universities where being a history major is a joke, some where it's hard as hell. Typically one thinks of biology as a hard science but at my university it's fairly simple from what I hear. The math department is a JOKE. The department makes the major easy or hard in my opinion.

Yep. The thing with these humanities courses-- like English, philosophy and so on-- is that there is a lot of work, at least at my university. In the one Latin course they expect you to read a book from cover to cover in the first week (a pretty thick book). At my university the degree people think is the hardest is not a science degree, but that's perception, no one can really be certain coz no ones done all the degrees of course.

Biology, chemistry are not difficult, there's just a huge course load, and those are hard sciences.

Actually, there are very few "easy" majors.

 

[zomgwtf]

I don't agree with anything about 'easy majors'. It looks to me like you are just trying to make yourself feel better yourself by putting down what other people view as a worthwhile education. My buddy in engineering does the exact same thing, he's always putting down people who take pure sciences course because 'they are so easy' and 'the people taking them just are not intelligent enough' to take engineering.

 

[Brian_C]

Calculus is a graduate level course for business majors. What a joke. I took that stuff in high school.

 

[Proton Soup]

Because apparently, people that aren't getting degrees in science/engineering are threatening national security.
http://www.smartplanet.com/business/blog/smart-takes/darpa-significant-decline-in-us-science-tech-degrees-harming-national-security/3412/

I don't necessarily agree with that article 100%, but the number of American students getting degrees in science and engineering is declining while for international students, its increasing. The US has lost its manufacturing base and has no significant resources except for coal (which is being phased out). If the US is to compete with other countries in the future, our only major source of value is going to come from intellectual property and innovation generated by our greatest minds. So, if the US starts producing a bunch of artists, elementary school teachers, and historians, what does that say about our future prospects?

i turned down an offer to work at cape canaveral, once. it wasn't actually NASA, but USA which contracts for much of it. the reason was, i was trying to get out of Podunk, AL and wage depression hell, and all they would offer was the standard "your current pay + 10%". and, the guy assigned to give me the tour of the place pretty much let me know that pay sucked all around. what was being sold were the perks of job stability (hey, kind of like being a teacher) and the promise that they would pay for you to go to school to study anything you like, even theology. i guess that's a dream for some people, especially if you've got all of life's expenses wrapped up and can put down cash for homes like Amy Bishop, but coming from being poor for so long and wanting to get ahead for once, it's really an insult.

so, now I'm thinking something like nursing will be a better fit, where the demand is going up instead of down. engineering can go take a flying leap.

 

[Phyisab****]

Yep. The thing with these humanities courses-- like English, philosophy and so on-- is that there is a lot of work, at least at my university. In the one Latin course they expect you to read a book from cover to cover in the first week (a pretty thick book). At my university the degree people think is the hardest is not a science degree, but that's perception, no one can really be certain coz no ones done all the degrees of course.

Biology, chemistry are not difficult, there's just a huge course load, and those are hard sciences.

Actually, there are very few "easy" majors.

I can easily say that reading a book cover to cover is a complete cakewalk compared to some of the hellish weeks I have seen.

 

[Phyisab****]

Accept the fact that you have a genetic predisposition to make life difficult for yourself.

Truth right there.

 

[JaWiB]

Are you suggesting that the only work required in an English course is reading a book? Reading is always the easy part.

I don't know about everyone else, but I'd take 10 hours of physics homework to 2 hours of writing an essay on Virgil. Having taken honors courses in liberal arts subjects, I can say I found them much more difficult than physics. Had I spent as much time on those classes, however, I think I could have done just as well, but I dislike the subject matter so much that it would have been torture.

 

[Phyisab****]

I guess your post is proof that there is just a huge variation in people's natural abilities. But when you say 10 hours of physics homework, I don't even know what that means. Whereas I will quickly write an essay and know that I will get an A. I can invest infinite time into my physics homework, so it's just a question of when to call it a night and preserve your sanity. I guess there are plenty of people who feel the opposite way, I guess liberal arts was really my strong suite, which is why I think it's so easy. This thread may cause me to completely revise the way I view my life.

 

[Phyisab****]

Just to be completely clear, you would rather spend 10 hours trying and failing to solve single problem in electrodynamics, under great duress and the threat of harming your grades, vs spending two hours writing an essay on Virgil? Really? I mean, Really?

 

[JaWiB]

Just to be completely clear, you would rather spend 10 hours trying to solve single problem in electrodynamics, under great duress and the threat of harming your grades, vs spending two hours writing an essay on Virgil? Really? I mean, Really?

If I had a single problem in electrodynamics that was going to have that kind of impact on my grade, then no. But I have spent hours on homework problems in physics and not felt too worn out, whereas essays have a much heavier weight on my final grade, in general. In reality, I'd probably spend many more hours on my essay over the course of a couple weeks and feel stressed the entire time.

 

[Huckleberry]

I've taken math and science classes that are required for liberal arts majors. They are very simple. No studying required. However, I have also had some achitectural engineering courses that I found very difficult and a bottomless time sink. Many minimum requirement arts classes I could sleep through and get an A. I've also had some creative writing classes that wracked my brain for months on end without ever once having the decency to supply me with a correct answer for all my effort.

There may be some perception bias perhaps?

 

[Phyisab****]

I've taken math and science classes that are required for liberal arts majors. They are very simple. No studying required.

It must be perception bias, or it is almost a law of nature that you major in what you think is most difficult. Given the opinions on this thread.

 

[Ronnin]

The bottom line here is that you get what you put into whatever given course of study you take. Once upon a time before I changed my major to finance and accounting I was a computer science major. I can say haven taken the calculus, physics, and programming before I changed the "difficulty" in those courses seemed to all stem from the math and problem solving skills. Did these courses help in my business classes? Yes, I didn't feel treatened by any of the math I encountered or problem solving I faced. In that respect I will definately give it up to the sciences for those "hard science" skills. I thought it was all cake compared to my earlier courses until I hit the upper level accounting and finance courses. I had to study just as hard to make A's in those classes as I did the physics courses because of the volume and depth of the material. Comparing a Calculus class a physics major would take to one a liberal arts major would take is just silly. Most people wouldn't expect a LA major to need the same grasp of calculus as someone who does engineering. I think this is one reason sci-majors tend to look down on everything else because of these kind of short sighted comparisons. I use to think anyone with a music degree was a complete joke too until I actually took a music class and took up an instument myself. Anyone who is REALLY GOOD at anything has had to put the time into get there. RESPECT THAT, no matter what the craft.
If all of these other "easy" majors were so easy you would have a backlog of physicists and engineers easily bumping musicians, CPAs, and lawyers out of their jobs the minute they couldn't find something that payed enough in the science industry. University should be about learning how to work, learn, and deal with time tables, no matter what major you choose to study. There are plenty of people in every given field who found a way to just get by. I know, I come across them all the time. Get out into the real world and you'll find it's much easier to find someone with whatever sheepskin the job calls for than it is to find someone who will actually work, work well with others, and produce something of value.

 

[Chi Meson]

Calculus is a graduate level course for business majors. What a joke. I took that stuff in high school.

Hang on there. A friend of mine working on his MBA was taking a course in some pretty stiff dynamic system, chaos theory mathematics. I took a look at his textbook once and shuddered.

 

[russ_watters]

Actually in the US, we believe that all men are created equal, we don't look down upon others. Where do you live?

Yes, created equal. As in, given the same potential to succeed, at birth. What you do after you are created is how you are defined as a person. And some people learn science/engineering and some learn communications.

Anyway, I went to the Naval Academy and it was refreshing that most people there seemed to understand what majors were hard and what were easy. There was even a saying: "poly sci and fly", which mean that if you wanted to get good grades so you could become a pilot, take poly sci.

 

[russ_watters]

Yep. The thing with these humanities courses-- like English, philosophy and so on-- is that there is a lot of work, at least at my university. In the one Latin course they expect you to read a book from cover to cover in the first week (a pretty thick book).

That is true of some of the humanities courses, but don't confuse a large workload with a hard workload.

 

[turbo]

After some really valuable guidance and advice from my honors advisor, I decided to study something that I loved and not just stuff that would guarantee me a good job. I left Engineering after my freshman year, and pursued a double major in English literature and Philosophy. I didn't mind the work-load because it was all stuff that I enjoyed doing. In the second semester of my Sophomore year, I was carrying 18 credit-hours, and my advisor recommended that I take courses in the theory of education, so that I could qualify for a teaching certificate, if I wanted. I asked when I should take those Education courses, and he said "now". I was aghast, because I had to get the dean's approval to get the 18 credit hours, but my advisor said "he'll approve it". He was right. I used those classes as study-halls, and asked a question every once in a while. Aced all 3 of them. It was then that I realized why my hardest-partying friends were Education majors.

 

[story645]

That is true of some of the humanities courses, but don't confuse a large workload with a hard workload.

Essays are really difficult if you don't know how to do them, read between the lines on the assignments, or are otherwise unskilled at humanities type critical analysis. I've seen so many different liberal arts assignments over the years (including lots of education stuff), and a lot of it is difficult in its own way. I've also seen plenty of engineers flounder dealing with essays that a competent English major would breeze through. It's all about aptitude; some people are better suited for certain tasks then others. Generally though, humanities research papers require far more work than science ones and better integration of sources (which is difficult.) If researchers had paid better attention to their liberal arts courses, maybe more scientific papers would be readable.

I don't know about everyone else, but I'd take 10 hours of physics homework to 2 hours of writing an essay on Virgil.

Same here. I'm a competent writer, but I detest writing papers. I'm also a perfectionist, so I average and hour per page.

you would rather spend 10 hours trying and failing to solve single problem in electrodynamics, under great duress and the threat of harming your grades, vs spending two hours writing an essay on Virgil?

I pretty much chose my majors that way. I wanted a challenge and was always good at liberal arts, so I went for a degree in engineering. My GPA in psychology is significantly better than my GPA in engineering.

 

[Monique]

This is the only place where I hear people saying that Biology would be an easy major, I wonder what they are basing that on. These people either do not know what is involved, or their university has a poor curriculum.