Hillary Clinton's Proposal for Katrina Commission

[1123581321]

"katrina commision"

Hillary clinton seems to think that there should be a federal investigation into how the relief effort got screwed up in the wake of the hurricane. I think that that would be a waste of money, and would get nothing done that couldn't be done in a quicker, easier manor. we all know what went wrong, FEMA wasn't ready for a hurricane like this, and new orleans' leeves wern't built well enough for a cat 4 or 5.

I do think that the FEMA director should be cabinet level person, its a big job, and one that millions of people rely on being done right.

What are your opinions?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/story/343489p-293306c.html

 

[Smurf]

Investigation is a waste, when has any investigation of any US failure had any positive results? I can't think of a single one. Nothing will come of this, unfortunately.

 

[Pengwuino]

And this is the woman who demanded the federal investigation into the Hot Coffee mod in the newest Grand Theft Auto game...

 

[Smurf]

Yeah what's with her an her investigations... They're all just a waste of time anyways.

 

[Pengwuino]

It can't be a way to get "her name in the spotlight". Shes the former first lady! I don't think a video game commission is going to be the centerpiece of her 08' campaign.

 

[faust9]

Hillary clinton seems to think that there should be a federal investigation into how the relief effort got screwed up in the wake of the hurricane. I think that that would be a waste of money, and would get nothing done that couldn't be done in a quicker, easier manor. we all know what went wrong, FEMA wasn't ready for a hurricane like this, and new orleans' leeves wern't built well enough for a cat 4 or 5.

I do think that the FEMA director should be cabinet level person, its a big job, and one that millions of people rely on being done right.

What are your opinions?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/story/343489p-293306c.html

Why is finding the root cause of the problem a waste of money? You cannot fix a problem until you know the root cause. Slapping a bandaid on a severed arm to stop the bleeding will not reattach the arm and fixing superficial problems for disaster management will not improve the ability to handle a disaster. Why were we so late at responding? I don't know. You don't know. An investigation is needed to determine this and when congress or the president screw up the investigating body is usually a commission---a board of people who look at why something failed or to investigate something.

 

[Smurf]

It can't be a way to get "her name in the spotlight". Shes the former first lady! I don't think a video game commission is going to be the centerpiece of her 08' campaign.

I think the video game thing was a lousy attempt to appeal to those fundamental christians fussing over nudity.

Let the hijacking begin!

 

[Pengwuino]

Comissions of this nature are normally done at the local level I thought (or state). How is this handled in other cases?

 

[Pengwuino]

I think the video game thing was a lousy attempt to appeal to those fundamental christians fussing over nudity.

Ha, hilary clinton appealing to christians. Yah right. And pigs can fly.
Smurf sucks

 

[Manchot]

Comissions of this nature are normally done at the local level I thought (or state). How is this handled in other cases?

Considering that this was largely a federal failure, it deserves a federal investigation.

 

[Pengwuino]

Considering that this was largely a federal failure, it deserves a federal investigation.

... state governments are suppose to be at the front line when disasters occur. California has a forest fire, california firefighters respond, not FEMA.

 

[Skyhunter]

Hillary clinton seems to think that there should be a federal investigation into how the relief effort got screwed up in the wake of the hurricane. I think that that would be a waste of money, and would get nothing done that couldn't be done in a quicker, easier manor. we all know what went wrong, FEMA wasn't ready for a hurricane like this, and new orleans' leeves wern't built well enough for a cat 4 or 5.

It makes me wonder what they are prepared for.

If they cannot respond to a hurricane they can see coming days in advance, what is going to happen with a catastrophe that strikes suddenly?

I do think that the FEMA director should be cabinet level person, its a big job, and one that millions of people rely on being done right.

So did Bill Clinton

What are your opinions?

The investigation is necessary, you need to find out what went wrong if you intend to fix the problem. If it turns into a witch hunt then it will be a waste of time.

As I posted in another thread, Bush had all the authority he needed to respond to this catastrophe. He should assume responsibility so that we can move forward. The Department of Homeland Security is a hugely expensive failure.

There is already finger pointing at who was responsible and the debate is degenerating into how to place and deflect blame. The president should accept responsibility so that the debate can move forward constructively.

 

[1123581321]

Why is finding the root cause of the problem a waste of money? You cannot fix a problem until you know the root cause. Slapping a bandaid on a severed arm to stop the bleeding will not reattach the arm and fixing superficial problems for disaster management will not improve the ability to handle a disaster. Why were we so late at responding? I don't know. You don't know. An investigation is needed to determine this and when congress or the president screw up the investigating body is usually a commission---a board of people who look at why something failed or to investigate something.

its a waste of money to do that, and nothing will be accomplished. All one has to do is put the FEMA director on the cabinet, and find a new FEMA director! Of course, new orleans (and a lot of LA and mississippi) need fixed, and better evacuation plans need to be made, especially for the poor. there are some minor details that need to be worked out, but the mayor-governor-fema director can do that without a multi-million dollar investigation.

Fibonacci

 

[faust9]

Investigations are the key to efficient QA(quality assurance) programs. Anyone who served in the Navy has been to an incident inquary. These inquaries are designed to determine the root cause of failure be it procedural, communications, implementation, etc. These incident inquaries are how the Navy ensures its QA(and Nuc and SubSafe) procedures are followed to prevent the loss of life or equipment.

Inquaries in and of themselves are not evil. You need to find the root cause of failure(not necessarily finger pointing either) before you can address a problem effectively.

 

[faust9]

its a waste of money to do that, and nothing will be accomplished. All one has to do is put the FEMA director on the cabinet, and find a new FEMA director! Of course, new orleans (and a lot of LA and mississippi) need fixed, and better evacuation plans need to be made, especially for the poor. there are some minor details that need to be worked out, but the mayor-governor-fema director can do that without a multi-million dollar investigation.

Fibonacci

Wow, you seem so certain. I gather you've followed these things for years and years and years. We all know adding cabinet level positions automatically fix things don't we. Heck, we made a Homeland Security position(the result of the 911 commission inquary so I guess they do accomplish some things) and suddenly all of our problems are gone... Wait no we still have problems mobilizing disaster support.

 

[Manchot]

... state governments are suppose to be at the front line when disasters occur. California has a forest fire, california firefighters respond, not FEMA.

If a federal state of emergency is declared, the burden of the response shifts to the federal government. Guess what? One was declared two days before the hurricane hit.

 

[edward]

... state governments are suppose to be at the front line when disasters occur. California has a forest fire, california firefighters respond, not FEMA.

Forest fires are not an emergency or a disaster that envolves large numbers of people. The U.S Forest service responds to forest fires anywhere in the country.

 

[Pengwuino]

If a federal state of emergency is declared, the burden of the response shifts to the federal government. Guess what? One was declared two days before the hurricane hit.

Two days before the hurricane hit? I thought it was 2 days after... hmm ill go look that up.

edit:

Ok well I am finding contradictory information so I need your source.

 

[faust9]

Two days before the hurricane hit? I thought it was 2 days after... hmm ill go look that up.

Well then you need to read the news before commenting. There are multiple threads on the site covering the timeline of when a Federal Disaster was declared, when the hurricane made landfall, and the follow on events.

The disaster was declared before Katrina made landfall in order to free monies and resources in anticipation of a disaster.

[edit] http://news.google.com/news?q=federal disaster declared&num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&sa=N&tab=wn
http://www.thethomasvilletimes.com/news/2005/0901/Front_Page/024.html

 

[edward]

Investigation is a waste, when has any investigation of any US failure had any positive results? I can't think of a single one. Nothing will come of this, unfortunately.

The 911 commission had some sucess, but a cloud of secrecy in the guise of national security kept them from finding out what they needed to know.

There will be no cloud of secrecy on this one, only lies.

Blanco did something to tick off Bush. Perhaps it was her trip to Iraq and their meeting afterward.

 

[Manchot]

I believe that you consider the http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html to be a credible source (even though I don't). Katrina made landfall on the 29th.

 

[edward]

Well then you need to read the news before commenting. There are multiple threads on the site covering the timeline of when a Federal Disaster was declared, when the hurricane made landfall, and the follow on events.

The disaster was declared before Katrina made landfall in order to free monies and resources in anticipation of a disaster.

[edit] http://news.google.com/news?q=federal disaster declared&num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&sa=N&tab=wn
http://www.thethomasvilletimes.com/news/2005/0901/Front_Page/024.html

True and FEMA has contractors who are supposed to pre-position water, and ice before a hurricane hits.

 

[Pengwuino]

Well I had seen this...

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/4/124905.shtml

and was confused as to what happened. I guess this article is false or something.

 

[Manchot]

Yeah, well maybe you shouldn't spend your time reading crackpot "news" sites. That site is worse than Fox.

 

[pattylou]

What are your opinions?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/story/343489p-293306c.html

My opinion is that she sees this as an opportunity to define herself as working for the common man. My other opinion is that she'd be a political fool not to take that opportunity. My other opinion is there's no way in hell she can win in 2008, and my other opinion is that the whole political "game" is a bit sickeningly calculated, isn't it?

Still, the democratic party is supposed to stand for the middle and lower class in America, and if something like this didn't happen, I'd be equally distressed and dismayed at the political scene. I am glad the democratic party is willing to put their money where their mouth is.

 

[edward]

Well I had seen this...

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/4/124905.shtml

and was confused as to what happened. I guess this article is false or something.

She was asked to sign a document giving full control to the federal government. Which would have meant federalization of the disaster. This has never happened before, and essentialy would have been martial law. The federal government then could have blamed everything that went wrong on her or anyone. Also what the federal government did or didn't do with the military would have been kept secret.

Why would the feds do this? They knew there was a good chance that the leeves would break and didn't want to be involved. They knew she would not sign that document.

Her rufusal to sign in no way relieved the federal government and the Department of Homeland Security, from their obligations in regards to her request for help.

 

[Pengwuino]

Yeah, well maybe you shouldn't spend your time reading crackpot "news" sites. That site is worse than Fox.

Oh, so its like the BBC? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

just kidding of course.
Smurf still sucks!

 

[Skyhunter]

Well I had seen this...

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/4/124905.shtml

and was confused as to what happened. I guess this article is false or something.

Duh

 

[Skyhunter]

Oh, so its like the BBC? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

just kidding of course.
Smurf still sucks!

Just a little constructive criticism;

When are you going to get a clue?

If you are only open to half the argument, and the extreme half at that, you will never be able to look at an issue objectively.

 

[Manchot]

No, because the BBC is considered to be credible. Any idiot who can use Google can find a crackpot site to support pretty much any theory. Personally, I believe that the Earth is flat. This site supports me.

 

[edward]

The Department of Homeland Security was the responsible entity here.
This could just as easily been a bungled response to a terrorist attack.
There must be an investigation.

 

[Pengwuino]

If you are only open to half the argument, and the extreme half at that, you will never be able to look at an issue objectively.

ha, want to see extreme views? Go look at your past posts.

 

[Skyhunter]

ha, want to see extreme views? Go look at your past posts.

 

[TRCSF]

Thousands of American citizens are dead because of incompetence, and you don't want an investigation? Is that because you're worried what the investigation might find?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I thought that investigations of this sort of thing happened anyway and that it is only when the agencies involved aren't trusted that a higher up commision is put together.