Kinematics of a ball and track

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    Ball Kinematics Track
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the kinematics of a ball rolling down a curved track defined by a cosine function. Participants explore methods to calculate the exit velocity of the ball at the end of the track segment, considering factors such as energy conservation and the effects of rolling motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Chopper introduces a track profile described by a cosine function and seeks to determine the exit velocity of a ball starting from rest at the top.
  • One participant suggests using conservation of energy to find the exit velocity, proposing the equation mgh = 1/2 mv², leading to v = sqrt(2gh).
  • Another participant recommends a more accurate approach that includes the rolling motion of the ball, introducing the equation mgh = 1/2 mv² + 1/2 Iω², where I is the moment of inertia and ω is related to the ball's velocity.
  • A later reply points out a potential error in the relationship between ω and v when the ball runs on rails, suggesting that the relationship depends on the perpendicular distance from the center of the ball to the track.
  • Chopper acknowledges the insights regarding inertia and the impact of the point of contact between the ball and the track.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple approaches to the problem, with some advocating for conservation of energy while others emphasize the importance of accounting for rolling motion. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best method to calculate the exit velocity.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not reached a consensus on the correct relationship between the ball's velocity and its rolling motion on the track, highlighting potential dependencies on the specific conditions of the track design.

chopperwalker
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Hello,

New here. I have designed a segment of a track that I am building that I need to pull some data out of. It is a high-to-low transition (down hill) that takes the form of cosine over the domain [0,pi]. Thea graph of the transition's profile is y=5.5cos(xpi/18)+5.5 It is 11 inches high and 18 inches long.

I want to find out its exit velocity (x=18) for a ~100g ball that starts form rest at the top. The graph of the formula I used above is position-vs-position. I know that velocity is the graph of position-vs-time's first derivative.

How do I get from the position-vs-position graph/formula to the position-vs-time graph/formula? I think I could do it if the slope was constant, but I'm not sure about the curve and I don't want to average the slope. Shouldn't it be the same graph, just compressed along the x-axis?

Thanks,
Chopper
 
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To a first approximation just use conservation of energy. You have PE = mgh and KE = 1/2 mv² so by setting them equal you get

mgh = 1/2 mv²
v = sqrt(2gh)
 
Though to get a more accurate approximation you should account for the rolling of the ball (assuming there is enough friction to prevent it from slipping):

mgh\ =\ \frac{1}{2} mv^2\ +\ \frac{1}{2}I\omega^2

Where I is the moment of inertia for a sphere (\frac{2}{5}MR^2) and \omega is \frac{v^2}{R^2}.

Solve that entire equation for v and you should get a more accurate approximation.
 
Note that w^2 is not v^2 / R^2 if the ball running on a pair of rails as opposed to rolling along a surface. w^2 = v^w / r^2, where r is the perpendicular component of distance from center of ball to the surface of the ball where it meets the supporting track.
 
@everyone: Thank you for the input. This will be very helpful. I had considered Inertia and that the point of contact of the ball/track would have an impact, but this is very helpful.
 

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