Lagrangian and conservations laws

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    Lagrangian Laws
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of Lagrangian invariance and spontaneous symmetry breaking in the context of conservation laws. Participants explore how these concepts relate to the behavior of conserved quantities in ground states, particularly in quantum field theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether conservation laws are broken in the ground state due to the lack of invariance of the Lagrangian in spontaneous symmetry breaking.
  • Another participant clarifies the distinction between dynamical invariance leading to conserved charges and the representation of these charges in Hilbert space, suggesting that the action can remain invariant even if the ground state does not exhibit symmetry.
  • This participant elaborates on the conditions under which a symmetry is considered manifest or spontaneously broken, emphasizing that the conservation of charge persists despite the symmetry being hidden.
  • A specific example involving a Lagrangian invariant under field translation is provided to illustrate the concepts discussed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between Lagrangian invariance and conservation laws in the context of spontaneous symmetry breaking. There is no consensus on whether conservation laws are broken in the ground state.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of symmetry operations at different levels (dynamical vs. representation) and the implications for conserved quantities, indicating potential limitations in understanding these concepts fully.

spidey
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while studying lagrangian i got this doubt..if the lagrangian is invariant in time,space,rotation, then we have corresponding conservation laws..
In spontaneous symmetry breaking, the lagrangian is not invariant in ground state and the symmetry breaks spontaneously.so, the conserved quantity is now not conserved in ground state. so, are the conservation laws break in ground state?
 
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somebody please respond...or please move this to appropriate section..
 
spidey said:
while studying lagrangian i got this doubt..if the lagrangian is invariant in time,space,rotation, then we have corresponding conservation laws..
In spontaneous symmetry breaking, the lagrangian is not invariant in ground state and the symmetry breaks spontaneously.so, the conserved quantity is now not conserved in ground state. so, are the conservation laws break in ground state?

You should have posted this in QM or particles forums.
Any way, you are confusing between the two levels in which a symmetry operate. These are:

1) the dynamical level; the invariance of the action integral. This leads to a conserved (Noether) charge:

\delta \int d^{4}x \ \mathcal{L} = 0 \Rightarrow \partial_{a}J^{a}= 0 \Rightarrow \frac{d}{dt}Q = 0

2) the level of the representation of field operators and their action in the Hilbert space. At this level we ask whether the symmetry can be represented by unitary transformations generated by the above conserved charge:

U = \exp \left( i \alpha Q \right)

Here, two things can happen:

i) If U exists, i.e., Q is well-defined Hermitian operator ( say, a^{\dagger}a ), then

Q|0 \rangle \ = \ a^{\dagger}a |0 \rangle = 0

and the symmetry is said to be manifest.

ii) If U does not exist; Q is ill-defind operator, then

Q|0 \rangle \neq 0

and the symmetry is said to be spontaneously broken (hidden). This does not mean that Q depends on the time. The action is invariant even when the ground state is not.

Spontaneous breakdown of symmetry is the lack of degenercy in particle spectra in a SYMMETRIC theory. Or in the language of QFT, it is the breakdown of symmetry at the representation level, not at the dynamical level ( the action is invariant and Q is conserved).

To see that Q is conserved even when the symmetry is hidden, let us consider the theory

\mathcal{L} =(1/2) \partial_{a} \phi \partial^{a} \phi

which is invariant under field translation

\bar{\phi} = \phi + \chi

The corresponding conserved charge is given by

Q = \int d^{3}x \ \partial_{0} \phi (x)

This invariance, however, can not be unitarily represented in Hilbert space; for if we write

\bar{\phi} = \phi + \chi = U(\chi) \phi U^{-1}(\chi )

with

U = \exp \left( i \chi Q \right), \ \ Q = Q^{\dagger} = a^{\dagger}a

i.e., if we assume that the ground state is invariant U |0 \rangle = |0 \rangle, then

\langle 0 |\bar{\phi} |0 \rangle = \langle 0|\phi |0 \rangle + \chi = \langle 0|\phi |0 \rangle

Or, since \langle \phi \rangle = 0,

\langle \bar{\phi} \rangle = \chi = 0

but this can not be right because \chi is arbitrary. Thus the symmetry can not be represented by unitary operator (constructed from the conserved Q) on Hilbert space, i.e., the symmetry of the action is not a symmetry of the ground state.

regards

sam
 
Last edited:
thanks mate for the reply..
 

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