Lagrangian density for the EM field in a dielectric medium

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the form of the Lagrangian density for the electromagnetic (EM) field in a dielectric medium, exploring its derivation, properties, and implications within the framework of special relativity and gauge invariance.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the Lagrangian density takes the form d^3 \bf x \left[ \epsilon \bf E^2 - \bf B^2 \right], noting its dimensional consistency with energy per unit volume.
  • Another participant suggests that the form arises from the relativistic Lagrangian for an EM field in a dielectric medium, referencing a textbook by Griffiths.
  • A participant proposes a reasoning framework involving dimensional analysis, asserting that the Lagrangian must reflect the contributions from the electric field, magnetic field, and dielectric properties of the medium.
  • One contributor emphasizes that the Lagrangian must be a scalar quantity in special relativity, limiting the combinations of the field tensor, and presents a specific form that yields Maxwell's equations.
  • Another participant adds that the Lagrangian should incorporate gauge invariance and have at most two derivatives, suggesting that this restriction affects the form of the Lagrangian density.
  • A later reply questions the necessity of Lorentz invariance in the context of a dielectric medium, which may have a preferred rest frame.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of gauge invariance and Lorentz invariance in the context of the Lagrangian for a dielectric medium. There is no consensus on the best approach or form of the Lagrangian density.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the nature of Lagrangians, dimensional analysis, and the implications of special relativity that remain unresolved. The limitations of the proposed forms and their adherence to physical principles are also noted but not conclusively addressed.

MadMax
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Why does the Lagrangian density for the EM field in a dielectric medium take the form [tex]d^3 \bf x \left[ \epsilon \bf E^2 - \bf B^2 \right][/tex]? I can see that the expression for Lagrangian density has units of energy per unit volume as you would expect but that's about it. Much appreciated.
 
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It comes from the relativistic lagrangian describing an em field in a dielectric medium. I think (not 2 sure, though) there's a chapter on this in Griffiths text on electrodynamics.

Daniel.
 
hmm would the following reasoning be sufficient?

1. The lagrangian density for an EM field in a dielectric medium has to have dimensions of energy per unit volume.

2. Lagrangians and such involve a number of terms.

3. Each term must be a contribution from each field involved and the terms must reflect (only dimensionally) the physics of the system. In this case the properties/aspects/entities of the system are: the dielectric property of the medium ([tex]\epsilon[/tex]), the magnetic field (B), and the electric field (E). In cgs units energy density for B field is given here: http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/MagneticFieldEnergyDensity.html
and energy density for E field is given here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density
Using dimensional analysis we find that the terms of the lagrangian density are as given in the OP

4. Considering that all lagrangians involve atleast one negative and one positive term and that it's just a matter of convention which term is which we arrive at the given lagrangian density.

It's all quite handwavey but all based on sound physical principles applied in a sound manner. Since Langrangians and such are rather fundamental principles that cannot be derived I'm pretty sure I'm justified in using this logic to answer my question in the OP. Comments would be much appreciated. Thanks :)
 
Last edited:
If you look at it from the point of view of special relativity, the Lagrangian has to be a scalar quantity. Given that the field tensor is a 2-form, that seriously limits the possible combinations of the field tensor you can think of. Perhaps the simplest is:

[tex]L = k F^{\alpha\beta}F_{\alpha\beta}[/tex]

where k is a constant. This does indeed yield Maxwell's equations.
 
There's actually more to it, Masud. One should build a lagrangian that incorporates the gauge invariance of the theory. Yours does. However, there's one more restriction: it should have at most 2 derivatives. That is the eqna of motion must be at most second order in derivatives. If that hadn't been an issue, then more general lagrangian (densities) could be built.

For example: [itex]\mathcal{L} =k\left(F^{\mu\nu}F_{\mu\nu}\right)^{2}[/itex].

Daniel.
 
masudr said:
If you look at it from the point of view of special relativity, the Lagrangian has to be a scalar quantity. Given that the field tensor is a 2-form, that seriously limits the possible combinations of the field tensor you can think of. Perhaps the simplest is:

[tex]L = k F^{\alpha\beta}F_{\alpha\beta}[/tex]

where k is a constant. This does indeed yield Maxwell's equations.

Yes, but we are working in a dielectric, which has a preferred (rest) frame to it, so we are not obliged anymore to respect Lorentz invariance, no ?
 

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