Confusion about the Energy Density of EM waves

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the energy density of electromagnetic (EM) waves, specifically addressing the calculation methods for energy density using the electric field (E) and magnetic field (B). Participants explore the differences between instantaneous and average energy density, as well as the appropriate values to use for E and B in these calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the peak value of the E vector is used in energy density calculations and presents two potential formulas for energy density.
  • Another participant notes that the B field is also present in an EM wave, suggesting that total energy density includes contributions from both E and B fields.
  • A participant asks whether to use peak values (E=E0, B=B0) or average values (E=E0/sqrt(2), B=B0/sqrt(2)) when calculating energy density, expressing confusion over differing representations in various texts.
  • Another participant clarifies the distinction between instantaneous energy density and average energy density, explaining how different values of E and B relate to these concepts.
  • It is noted that different sources may refer to different types of energy density, which can lead to inconsistencies in notation and understanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express confusion and differing views regarding the appropriate values to use for E and B in energy density calculations. There is no consensus on whether to use peak or average values, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of distinguishing between instantaneous and average energy density, as well as the potential for varying definitions in different texts, which may lead to misunderstandings.

PumpkinCougar95
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I am a bit confused about the energy density in an EM wave. why do we take the Peak value of E vector while calculating the energy density?

Like if the E field is ##E_0 Sin(kx-wt)## what is the energy density of the EM wave(Magnetic + Electric)?

is it A) ##\frac {e_0E_0^2}{2} ## or B) ## e_0E_0^2 ## ?

in the A) part I have used the Average value of E field as ## <E^2> ~ = \frac {E_0^2 }{2}##
 
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PumpkinCougar95 said:
I am a bit confused about the energy density in an EM wave.
PumpkinCougar95 said:
I have used the Average value of E field as ## <E^2> ~ = \frac {E_0^2 }{2}##
Is the electric field the only field in an electromagnetic wave?
 
No, There is the B field too.

so the total Energy density is:
$$u = \frac {\epsilon_0E^2}{2} + \frac {B^2}{2 \mu_0}$$
My question is do we take ##E=E_0## and ##B=B_0## while calculating? Or do we Use ##E= \frac {E_0}{ sqrt{2} }## and ##B=\frac {B_0}{sqrt{2}}## ? Because in multiple books i have seen ##E=E_0## and ##B=B_0## which doesn't make any sense to me.
 
Are you looking for the "instantaneous" energy density at a point in space and time in the wave, or the average energy density over a volume of space or period of time? Your equation for ##u## is the "instantaneous" energy density at any point in the wave, using the values of ##E## and ##B## at that point. Setting ##E = E_0## and ##B = B_0## gives you the maximum energy density, ##u_0##, at the maxima of the waves. Setting ##E = E_0 / \sqrt 2## and ##B = B_0 / \sqrt 2## gives you the average energy density, ##\langle u \rangle##, for a sinusoidal wave.

More carefully, $$\langle u \rangle = \frac 1 2 \varepsilon_0 \langle E^2 \rangle + \frac 1 {2 \mu_0} \langle B^2 \rangle = \frac 1 4 \varepsilon_0 E_0^2 + \frac 1 {4 \mu_0} B_0^2$$

Most books take one more step, using the relationship between ##E## and ##B## in an electromagnetic wave. I'll let you fill in that step!

Different books, or even different points in the same book, may be talking about different kinds of energy density (instantaneous versus average), and sometimes you have to read carefully to see which is which. The mathematical notation may not always be consistent, unfortunately.
 
Last edited:
Oh Ok. Thanks for your help!
 

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