Leading and lagging clock times in Lorentz Transforms

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of leading and lagging clock times in the context of Lorentz transformations, specifically addressing a paper that presents a figure illustrating these concepts. Participants are examining the implications of relative velocity signs in the Lorentz transform and how they affect the conclusions drawn about clock synchronization.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the sign of the relative velocity in the Lorentz transform presented in the paper, suggesting it may reverse the conclusion that "leading clocks lag."
  • Another participant defends the original conclusion, explaining that in the frame where the particle is moving, clocks with larger spatial coordinates show smaller temporal values according to the Lorentz transformation.
  • A third participant challenges the interpretation of the observer's coordinate for the particle's location, arguing that it should be positive, which would affect the conclusion about which clock is lagging.
  • A later reply acknowledges a misunderstanding regarding which clock was being referenced, indicating a shift in perspective.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the sign of the relative velocity and its implications for clock synchronization. No consensus is reached, as differing interpretations of the Lorentz transformation and its application remain evident.

Contextual Notes

Participants rely on specific assumptions about the synchronization of clocks in different frames and the implications of relative velocity signs, which may not be fully clarified in the discussion.

exmarine
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Someone posted this link to a paper I really appreciated.

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/physri/2015/895134/

But doesn’t the author have the wrong sign on the relative velocity in his Lorentz Transform associated with his figure 2b? And if so, doesn’t that reverse his conclusion that “leading clocks lag”? His leading clock is #3 in the figure, and its time would then be LARGER than that of the trailing clock #1? So wouldn’t the correct rule be “trailing clocks lag”?

He never really shows the time phase LT calculation, but he does show a negative relative velocity in the first column on page 3. But the particle is moving to the right along the observer’s positive x’-axis. So it seems to me that the relative velocity should be positive in the LT from the particle’s x-axis frame to the observer’s x’-axis. The LT must approach the Galilean Transform for very small velocities, and that would be (x’=x + vt). This produces a later time in clock #3 than in clock #1, not the earlier time indicated in his figure 2b.

Thanks.
 
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I think it's correct. There are two frames: F (as shown in figure 2b), in which the particle is moving at velocity \vec{v} (to the right, in the picture), and F' (as shown in figure 2a), in which the particle is at rest. The clocks in both figures are (I assume) clocks that are synchronized to show t', the time as measured in frame F'.

From the point of view of frame F', the clocks are synchronized; they all show the same time. From the point of view of frame F, the clocks are offset, according to the Lorentz transformation:

t' = \gamma (t - \frac{vx}{c^2})

So clocks with a larger value of x show a smaller value for t'.
 
Thank you very much for looking at this. But you think for very large time (1≪t), the observer’s coordinate (x’) for the location of the particle at (x=0) will be very large NEGATIVE? Don’t think so. It is moving to the right as indicated in his figure 2b, so it will be very large positive (1≪x’). The relative velocity must be positive in the LT, and that switches the conclusion about which clock is lagging.
 
I think I see my error. I was looking at the wrong clock. Sorry...
 

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