Lie Derivatives and Parallel Transport

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of Lie Derivatives and Parallel Transport within the context of General Relativity and differential geometry. Participants explore the relationship between these two processes, particularly how they relate to the change of vectors along curves on surfaces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that Lie Differentiation is considered a more "primitive" process than Covariant Differentiation, which relies on a connection.
  • Another participant explains that while Lie derivatives define a form of transport, they depend on the specification of a curve as an integral curve of a vector field, contrasting with covariant derivatives that do not rely on external objects.
  • A participant discusses the mathematical expressions for the absolute derivative and the Lie derivative along a curve, highlighting the differences in their dependence on the vector field's gradient.
  • Concerns are raised about calculating angular deviation using Lie derivatives, with one participant describing a method involving a vector and points connected by a curve, while expressing uncertainty about an assumption related to parallel transport.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the relationship between Lie Derivatives and Parallel Transport, with no consensus reached on the best approach to understanding vector changes along curves. Some participants clarify concepts while others raise questions, indicating ongoing exploration rather than agreement.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the concepts discussed, including the dependence of Lie derivatives on the gradient of vector fields and the assumptions involved in calculating changes in vectors. There is an indication of uncertainty regarding the implications of affine parametrization in the context of parallel transport.

PhizzyQs
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Hi, I've begun learning about General Relativity, though I've already had some exposure to differential geometry.

In particular, I understand that Lie Differentiation is a more "primitive" process than Covariant Differentiation (in that the latter requires some sort of connection).

My question is this: parallel transport can be used to understand how a vector changes when you drag in along a curve on a certain surface. To be sure, you institute local coordinates, compute the metric, and then the connection (here, the connection being used, in this coordinate basis, are the Christoffel symbols), and then solve the differential equation.

In this way, you can find out, for instance, how much the vector changes its direction under a certain curve. But, is this information only encoded in the connection? That is to say, to find out how much the vector deviates, must I employ parallel transport, or is there some procedure, using only Lie Derivatives, to examine the change?
 
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Lie derivatives also define a sort of transport. However, the covariant derivative does not depend on objects outside the curve, while the Lie derivative does. So in Lie transport, the curve must be specified as an integral curve of a vector field.
 
The absolute derivative of a vector uμalong a curve with tangent vector vμ is uμvν (this is zero for parallel transport), whereas the Lie derivative along the same curve is uμvν - vμuν.

I think what you mean by "outside the curve" is that the Lie derivative depends on the gradient of v, not just v itself.
 
Bill_K said:
I think what you mean by "outside the curve" is that the Lie derivative depends on the gradient of v, not just v itself.

Yes, so v must be a vector field, and not just the tangent vector to a curve.
 
Oh, I know that much. My main concern is calculating angular deviation from using Lie derivatives.

I tried this: I begin with a vector A, and there are points P, and Q. They are connected by a curve Y, parametrized by an affine parameter t, whose tangent vector is u = dY(t)/dt. Using the pullback on the isomorphism generated by u, I take the vector from P to Q. Then, I use the metric at P to find <A(Q), u(Q)>. I compare this with <A(P), u(P)>. Given affine parametrization, u does not change under parallel transport, so I think this would be accurate.

EDIT: I am a little bit querulous about my last assumption there, and am examining it now.
 
Last edited:

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