Light intensity and index of refraction

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the behavior of light intensity and the Poynting vector when electromagnetic waves transition between different media, particularly in the context of linear mediums. Participants explore the implications of conservation of energy, photon density, and the index of refraction on the amplitude of the Poynting vector and overall intensity.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the amplitude of the Poynting vector should remain constant due to conservation of energy, despite changes in photon density and velocity.
  • Others argue that if wave propagation slows down, the energy density increases, suggesting that the flow of energy remains constant.
  • One participant notes that fewer photons are passing through a surface per second when light enters a medium with a higher index of refraction.
  • Another participant counters that all photons entering a medium will exit it, maintaining a constant flow of photons per second, despite changes in speed and density.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about how the Poynting vector is defined in a medium and whether its amplitude remains unchanged.
  • There is mention of reflection, with a participant stating that reflected intensity plus transmitted intensity equals incoming intensity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the intensity and amplitude of the Poynting vector remain constant when light transitions between media. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants focus on linear mediums and make assumptions regarding no absorption, which may influence their arguments. There are unresolved questions about the definitions and implications of the Poynting vector in different media.

Nikitin
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Hi. Will the amplitude of Poynting's vector change if the electromagnetic wave goes from one medium to another?
Shouldn't the amplitude remain constant due to conservation of energy? I.e. the photon-density and velocity will change, but their total intensity remains the same.

I could always do the calculations from maxwell's equations, but it seems like too much bother right now if one of you guys already know this (I'm tired).

Thanks
 
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Nikitin said:
Shouldn't the amplitude remain constant due to conservation of energy?
Why? If the wave propagation gets slower, the energy density goes up (because the flow stays constant if we can neglect losses).
 
But if the wave propagation gets slower, less photons are going thru the surface in question.

Btw, I am talking about linear mediums only!
 
Last edited:
Nikitin said:
less photons are going thru the surface in question.
No. Why do you think that?
Nikitin said:
Btw, I am talking about linear mediums only!
Yes I expected that.
 
mfb said:
No. Why do you think that?
Yes I expected that.

If the velocity of the photons is less, then fewer photons, per second, are passing thru the surface. So you could say that the photon flow gets "denser" if the light enters a medium with higher index of refraction than whence it came.

Sorry, I neglected to add the per second bit
 
Nikitin said:
If the velocity of the photons is less, then fewer photons, per second, are passing thru the surface.
No. All photons that go in will go out (this is exactly the "no absorption" assumption). If their speed gets lower, their density increases, but flow (here: photons per second) stays constant.
 
mfb said:
No. All photons that go in will go out (this is exactly the "no absorption" assumption). If their speed gets lower, their density increases, but flow (here: photons per second) stays constant.
Yes this is basically what I was saying with "doesn't the amplitude of Poynting's vector stay constant?".

So the intensity remains unchanged, right?
 
mfb said:
No. All photons that go in will go out (this is exactly the "no absorption" assumption). If their speed gets lower, their density increases, but flow (here: photons per second) stays constant.

Didn't you imply that the intensity does not remain constant for the light beam, in the beginning?
 
Power per area stays constant. I don't know how the Poynting vector is defined in a medium.
 
  • #10
There is always reflection. Reflected intensity + transmitted intensity = incoming intensity.
 
  • #11
mfb said:
Power per area stays constant. I don't know how the Poynting vector is defined in a medium.
Surely if the power per area stays constant, poynting's vector must stay constant?
 

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