Lightcones in advanced Eddington-Finkelstein coordinates

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on understanding the behavior of worldlines in advanced Eddington-Finkelstein coordinates, particularly in relation to lightcones and freely falling objects in the context of General Relativity (GTR). Participants explore the implications of these coordinates on the paths taken by objects falling into a Schwarzschild black hole and how these paths relate to the structure of lightcones.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the worldline of a freely falling object follows the axis of the lightcone after passing through its vertex, suggesting a lack of explanation in their textbook.
  • Another participant clarifies that the worldline does not travel through the vertices of the lightcones, but rather that the lightcones are constructed around the worldline, with observers positioned at the vertex of their current lightcone.
  • Further inquiry is made into why the worldline follows the axis of symmetry of the lightcone rather than taking alternative paths from the vertex.
  • A participant suggests that the symmetry of the lightcone is due to the local isotropy of the speed of light in the tangent space of the worldline.
  • Another participant notes that freely falling observers are at rest in an inertial frame, leading to a symmetrical lightcone around their worldline, and mentions that the lightcones may be tilted by the coordinate transformation influenced by mass and curvature.
  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the term "timelike local basis vector" in relation to the discussion.
  • A later reply proposes that the term "freely falling particles" in textbooks may refer specifically to particles falling from rest at infinity, implying that different initial conditions could lead to various paths through the lightcone's vertex.
  • Another participant references specific textbooks to illustrate their point, noting that the worldline in the Misner diagram aligns with the cone's axis of symmetry.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views regarding the behavior of worldlines in lightcones, with some agreement on the symmetry of lightcones in local frames, but no consensus on the specific reasons for the observed paths of freely falling objects. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of different initial conditions on the trajectories through lightcones.

Contextual Notes

The discussion involves assumptions about the nature of freely falling particles and their initial conditions, as well as the interpretation of lightcone structures in different coordinate systems. There are unresolved aspects regarding the mathematical representation of these concepts.

peter46464
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I'm trying to understand the basics of GTR.

My textbook shows the worldline of an object freely falling into a Schwarzschild black hole in advanced Eddington-Finkelstein coordinates as neatly passing through a series of lightcones as it curves up right to left on the page toward the singularity. What I don't understand is why the worldline, after going through the origin of each lightcone, then travels neatly along each cone's axis. Is that deliberate or what? There's no explanation in the text.

And, is it sensible to similarly ask how a freely falling object would pass through a lightcone in Schwarzschild coordinates (in the region where r is greater than the Schwarzschild radius)?

Thank you
 
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Do you mean traveling through the vertex ?

The faller is not falling through the vertices, rather, the worldline comes first and light-cones added. Any observer is always at the vertex of their current light-cone and any point on a worldline is a possible position of the observer on the world-line.
 
I understand that. But why does the worldline follow the axis of the lightcone rather than any other path from the tip/vertex?
 
peter46464 said:
I understand that. But why does the worldline follow the axis of the lightcone rather than any other path from the tip/vertex?
Do you mean the axis of symmetery ?

This is because in the local frames defined by the tangent space of the worldline at each point, the light cone is always symmetrical because of the local isotropy of the speed of light. Probably.
 
Yes, the axis of symmetry. I understand that the lightcones are symmetrical. But why does the textbook illustration show freely falling particles move along the axis of symmetry? I mean, there's any number of ways they could pass through the vertex and exit the cone. Why along the axis of symmetry?

Thank you
 
Last edited:
You will remember from special relativity that observers who are boosted wrt the elected rest frame pass asymmetrically through the light-cone ( which is global). The freely-falling observer is by definintion at rest in an inertial frame, so the light-cone is symmetrical around the world-line. That is, the axis to the worldline is in the direction of [itex]\partial_0[/itex] the timelike local basis vector.

You could say the light-cones are tilted by the coordinate transformation, which depends on M through the curvature.
 
Thanks. That's sort of clearer, though I don't really understand "timelike local basis vector".
 
peter46464 said:
But why does the textbook illustration show freely falling particles move along the axis of symmetry? I mean, there's any number of ways they could pass through the vertex and exit the cone. Why along the axis of symmetry?

I don't know which textbook you are using, but I suspect that by "freely falling particles" they really mean "particles freely falling from rest at infinity". In other words, they are not just any freely falling particles, but freely falling particles with a very specific initial condition. The other ways among the "any number of ways" that a freely falling particle could pass through the vertex of the light cone correspond to other initial conditions.
 
I was looking at Lambourne (Relativity, Gravitation and Cosmology) p190 and Misner et al (Gravitation) p829 - which is more difficult for me to understand. However, you can clearly see in the Misner diagram that the worldline goes straight along the cone's axis of symmetry.
 

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