Limits of Sequences .... Sohrab Exercise 2.2.7

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Exercise 2.2.7 from Houshang H. Sohrab's "Basic Real Analysis," specifically focusing on the limit of a sequence defined as $$\text{lim } ( \frac{ 1 }{ 1 + na } ) = 0$$ for natural numbers $$n$$. Participants are examining the proof's validity, the use of Bernoulli's Inequality, and the implications of their reasoning in the context of sequences and limits.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the correctness of their proof regarding the limit of the sequence, particularly concerning their arithmetic involving $$\epsilon$$.
  • Another participant suggests that the proof could be clarified and shortened, proposing a different approach to demonstrate the limit by working backwards from the result.
  • There is a discussion on the appropriate use of Bernoulli's Inequality, with one participant indicating that it may not be necessary for part (1) of the exercise but essential for part (2).
  • Concerns are raised about the proper formulation of mathematical statements, particularly regarding variable-binding constructions and the implications of defining variables within proofs.
  • Participants discuss the implications of using expressions in place of individual variables and the potential for confusion in mathematical reasoning.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correctness of the original proof. There are competing views on the necessity and application of Bernoulli's Inequality, as well as differing opinions on the clarity and correctness of the mathematical expressions used.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight limitations in the original proof, such as the improper use of variable definitions and the potential for undefined variables in certain contexts. The discussion also reflects on the nuances of mathematical language and notation that may affect the clarity of the argument.

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I am reading Houshang H. Sohrab's book: "Basic Real Analysis" (Second Edition).

I am focused on Chapter 2: Sequences and Series of Real Numbers ... ...

I need help with a part of Exercise 2.2.7 Part (1) ... ...

Exercise 2.2.7 Part (1) reads as follows:View attachment 7189I have managed a solution to this exercise and am posting it because

(1) I am unsure that the proof is valid/correct ... particularly given my arithmetic on \epsilon ...

(2) I did not use Sohrab's hint ... and that concerns me ... but I am also interested in how Bernoulli's Inequality is used in this proof ... I can see how to simply involve Bernoulli's Inequality, but not how to use it profitably ...

My proof is as follows:

To show $$\text{lim } ( \frac{ 1 }{ 1 + na } ) = 0$$ where $$n \in \mathbb{N} $$ ...

We have $$| \frac{ 1 }{ 1 + na } - 0 | = \frac{ 1 }{ 1 + na } \lt \frac{ 1 }{ na }$$

Now for $$\epsilon \gt 0$$ let $$\frac{ 1 }{ na } \lt \epsilon$$

Then let $$\epsilon = \frac{\epsilon^*}{a}$$ so that $$\epsilon^* = a \epsilon$$ ...

Then we have :

$$\frac{ 1 }{ 1 + na } \lt \frac{\epsilon^*}{a} \Longrightarrow \frac{ 1 }{ n } \lt \epsilon^*$$ ...So ... choose $$N$$ so that $$\frac{ 1 }{ N } \lt \epsilon^*$$ ...

So that then we have ... for $$n \gt N$$ ...

$$| \frac{ 1 }{ 1 + na } - 0 | = \frac{ 1 }{ 1 + na } \lt \frac{ 1 }{ na } = ( \frac{ 1 }{ n } ) ( \frac{ 1 }{ a } ) \lt \epsilon^* ( \frac{ 1 }{ a } ) = \epsilon a ( \frac{ 1 }{ a } ) = \epsilon $$

Is that correct?

and further ...

Can someone please indicate how Bernoulli's Inequality is used in a proof ...

Peter==========================================================================================

To help readers understand Sohrab's notation I am posting his definitions of convergence of a sequence and the limit of a sequence ... as follows:View attachment 7190
 
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Peter said:
To show $$\text{lim } ( \frac{ 1 }{ 1 + na } ) = 0$$ where $$n \in \mathbb{N} $$ ...

We have $$| \frac{ 1 }{ 1 + na } - 0 | = \frac{ 1 }{ 1 + na } \lt \frac{ 1 }{ na }$$
To produce large left and right delimiters that correspond to the size of the formula inside, write \left before the left delimiter and \right before the right one, e.g., \left|\frac{1}{1+na }-0\right| to produce $$\left|\frac{1}{1+na }-0\right|$$ (ideally it should be \left\lvert\frac{1}{1+na }-0\right\rvert).

Peter said:
Now for $$\epsilon \gt 0$$ let $$\frac{ 1 }{ na } \lt \epsilon$$
The previous line said $$\left|\frac{ 1 }{ 1 + na } - 0\right| = \frac{ 1 }{ 1 + na } \lt \frac{ 1 }{ na }$$. Implicitly, it is preceded by the universal quantifier $\forall n$, and the scope of this quantifiers ends at the end of the formula. This means that using $n$ is fine inside the formula, but outside $n$ is undefined. So saying "let $1/na<\epsilon$ produces an error message "$n$ is undefined" and a buzz
[YOUTUBE]FRpq7o1mKXY[/YOUTUBE]
after which the proof checking stops.

In fact, it is not a good idea to say things like "let $E$ equal ..." or "let $E$ be less than $\epsilon$" where $E$ is an expression and not an individual variable. What if it is impossible to satisfy this formula due to the shape of $E$? For example, it makes no sense to say "Let $1/(1+x^2)>2$" for a real $x$.

I would say, "Fix an arbitrary $\epsilon>0$. Then there exists an $n$ such that $1/na<\epsilon$".

By the way, strictly speaking it is also not good to write, "$\lim_{n\to\infty}\frac{1}{1+na}=0$ where $n\in\mathbb{N}$" because $\lim_{n\to\infty}$ is a variable-binding construction. It introduces a local variable $n$ that can be used only inside the expression that follows $\lim$ and is not defined outside of it. Other examples of variable-binding constructions are $\sum_{n=1}^\infty$ and $\int_0^1\dots\,dx$. One cannot say, "Consider $\sum_{n=1}^\infty 1/n^2$ where $n$ is even" or "$\int_0^1 x^2\,dx=1/3$ for $x=1/2$". In this example, $n\in\mathbb{N}$ is probably not necessary since $n$ is usually assumed to denote natural (rather than real) numbers (this reminds the implicit variable type convention in Fortran). But if it is not clear, one could say that $n$ ranges over natural numbers: this implies that $n$ is a placeholder rather than a fixed value.

Peter said:
Then let $$\epsilon = \frac{\epsilon^*}{a}$$ so that $$\epsilon^* = a \epsilon$$
Should be: "Let $$\epsilon^* = a \epsilon$$ so that $$\epsilon = \frac{\epsilon^*}{a}$$". This is because $\epsilon$ is already fixed and one cannot redefine it with "Let $\epsilon=\ldots$" (and it reads like a definition of $\epsilon$ at first glance rather than a definition of $\epsilon^*$, which it is).

Peter said:
Then we have :

$$\frac{ 1 }{ 1 + na } \lt \frac{\epsilon^*}{a} \Longrightarrow \frac{ 1 }{ n } \lt \epsilon^*$$
This implication is in general false, for example, for $a=1$.
 
Peter said:
I need help with a part of Exercise 2.2.7 Part (1) ... ...

.
.
.

(1) I am unsure that the proof is valid/correct ... particularly given my arithmetic on \epsilon ...

(2) I did not use Sohrab's hint ... and that concerns me ... but I am also interested in how Bernoulli's Inequality is used in this proof ...
[Edit. I wrote this before seeing Evgeny's comment above. You should probably look at both comments in parallel.]

I think you are right. There is no need to use Bernoulli for (1). Your argument is sort of correct, but you could shorten it (and perhaps clarify it) a bit like this:

Given $\varepsilon>0$, choose $N> \dfrac 1{a\varepsilon}$. Then $\dfrac 1{Na} < \varepsilon$, and $$n\geqslant N \Longrightarrow \frac1{1+na} <\frac1{na} \leqslant \frac1{Na} < \varepsilon.$$

It often happens in this sort of analysis that you need to tackle a problem by working backwards from the result (as you did in this case). But you then need to re-write the argument so as to lead forwards to the result.

For part (2) of this exercise you surely will want to use Bernoulli. I would do it like this:

Given $0<b<1$, let $a = \dfrac1b-1$. Then $a>0$, $b = \dfrac1{1+a}$, and $$b^n = \frac1{(1+a)^n} \leqslant \frac1{1+na}$$ by Bernoulli's inequality. But $\dfrac1{1+na} \to0$ as $n\to\infty$ by part (1), and it follows that $b^n\to0$.
 
Evgeny.Makarov said:
To produce large left and right delimiters that correspond to the size of the formula inside, write \left before the left delimiter and \right before the right one, e.g., \left|\frac{1}{1+na }-0\right| to produce $$\left|\frac{1}{1+na }-0\right|$$ (ideally it should be \left\lvert\frac{1}{1+na }-0\right\rvert).

The previous line said $$\left|\frac{ 1 }{ 1 + na } - 0\right| = \frac{ 1 }{ 1 + na } \lt \frac{ 1 }{ na }$$. Implicitly, it is preceded by the universal quantifier $\forall n$, and the scope of this quantifiers ends at the end of the formula. This means that using $n$ is fine inside the formula, but outside $n$ is undefined. So saying "let $1/na<\epsilon$ produces an error message "$n$ is undefined" and a buzz

after which the proof checking stops.

In fact, it is not a good idea to say things like "let $E$ equal ..." or "let $E$ be less than $\epsilon$" where $E$ is an expression and not an individual variable. What if it is impossible to satisfy this formula due to the shape of $E$? For example, it makes no sense to say "Let $1/(1+x^2)>2$" for a real $x$.

I would say, "Fix an arbitrary $\epsilon>0$. Then there exists an $n$ such that $1/na<\epsilon$".

By the way, strictly speaking it is also not good to write, "$\lim_{n\to\infty}\frac{1}{1+na}=0$ where $n\in\mathbb{N}$" because $\lim_{n\to\infty}$ is a variable-binding construction. It introduces a local variable $n$ that can be used only inside the expression that follows $\lim$ and is not defined outside of it. Other examples of variable-binding constructions are $\sum_{n=1}^\infty$ and $\int_0^1\dots\,dx$. One cannot say, "Consider $\sum_{n=1}^\infty 1/n^2$ where $n$ is even" or "$\int_0^1 x^2\,dx=1/3$ for $x=1/2$". In this example, $n\in\mathbb{N}$ is probably not necessary since $n$ is usually assumed to denote natural (rather than real) numbers (this reminds the implicit variable type convention in Fortran). But if it is not clear, one could say that $n$ ranges over natural numbers: this implies that $n$ is a placeholder rather than a fixed value.

Should be: "Let $$\epsilon^* = a \epsilon$$ so that $$\epsilon = \frac{\epsilon^*}{a}$$". This is because $\epsilon$ is already fixed and one cannot redefine it with "Let $\epsilon=\ldots$" (and it reads like a definition of $\epsilon$ at first glance rather than a definition of $\epsilon^*$, which it is).

This implication is in general false, for example, for $a=1$.

Hi Evgeny ...

Well! Thank you for all the guidance and support ... not only with the logic of proofs ... but also with Latex ...

I appreciate your support ... might even get me to the point of understanding analysis ... :)

Peter

- - - Updated - - -

Opalg said:
[Edit. I wrote this before seeing Evgeny's comment above. You should probably look at both comments in parallel.]

I think you are right. There is no need to use Bernoulli for (1). Your argument is sort of correct, but you could shorten it (and perhaps clarify it) a bit like this:

Given $\varepsilon>0$, choose $N> \dfrac 1{a\varepsilon}$. Then $\dfrac 1{Na} < \varepsilon$, and $$n\geqslant N \Longrightarrow \frac1{1+na} <\frac1{na} \leqslant \frac1{Na} < \varepsilon.$$

It often happens in this sort of analysis that you need to tackle a problem by working backwards from the result (as you did in this case). But you then need to re-write the argument so as to lead forwards to the result.

For part (2) of this exercise you surely will want to use Bernoulli. I would do it like this:

Given $0<b<1$, let $a = \dfrac1b-1$. Then $a>0$, $b = \dfrac1{1+a}$, and $$b^n = \frac1{(1+a)^n} \leqslant \frac1{1+na}$$ by Bernoulli's inequality. But $\dfrac1{1+na} \to0$ as $n\to\infty$ by part (1), and it follows that $b^n\to0$.

Thanks Opalg ... appreciate the help ...

Great to see a solution that stands up to scrutiny ...

Peter
 

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