Line Integral Example - mistake or am I missing something?

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem involving the calculation of work done by a gravitational field represented by a vector function. The original poster expresses confusion regarding the potential function associated with the vector field and its relationship to the gradient.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive the potential function from the given vector field and questions the relationship between the scalar function and its gradient. Some participants inquire about the correctness of the gradient derived from the proposed potential function and its implications for the force vector.

Discussion Status

Participants are exploring the relationship between the potential function and the vector field, with some suggesting that the potential function acts as an antiderivative. There is acknowledgment of the need to correctly derive the gradient to match the force vector, indicating a productive direction in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of potential confusion stemming from the textbook examples, and participants are questioning the definitions and assumptions related to the scalar and vector fields involved.

kostoglotov
Messages
231
Reaction score
6
This is an example at the beginning of the section on the Fundamental Theorem for Line Integrals.

1. Homework Statement


Find the work done by the gravitational field

[tex]\vec{F}(\vec{x}) = -\frac{mMG}{|\vec{x}|^3}\vec{x}[/tex]

in moving a particle from the point (3,4,12) to (2,2,0) along a piece wise smooth curve

Now, I think that there's a mistake in the solution given...but this textbook is pretty good, and plenty of times in the past I've thought it had made a mistake and really I was mistaken.

So, I understand all the concepts (edit: I obviously didn't), all good there. It's here where I'm scratching my head.

[tex]f(x,y,z) = \frac{mMG}{\sqrt{x^2+y^2+z^2}}[/tex]

So, we need to get the scalar function of f, call it the potential function, we know that in a conservative vector field [itex]\vec{F} = \nabla f[/itex], no worries. However, shouldn't it be

[tex]\vec{F}(\vec{x}) = -\frac{mMG}{|\vec{x}|^3}\vec{x} = -\frac{mMG|\vec{x}|}{|\vec{x}|^3}\vec{u} = -\frac{mMG}{|\vec{x}|^2}\vec{u}[/tex]

And so converting the vector form of F into a scalar field from which we can compute the grad vector, doesn't

[tex]|\vec{x}|^2 = x^2 + y^2 + z^2[/tex]

not

[tex]\sqrt{x^2+y^2+z^2}[/tex]

so shouldn't it be

[tex]f(x,y,z) = \frac{mMG}{|\vec{x}|^2} = \frac{mMG}{x^2+y^2+z^2}[/tex]

how would one end up with

[tex]f(x,y,z) = \frac{mMG}{\sqrt{x^2+y^2+z^2}}[/tex]

??

edit: both the 6th and 7th editions have the same example...so I'm guessing that I'm missing something.
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Can you work out the gradient of the f(x,y,z) you suggest? Does it give the right force?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: kostoglotov
DEvens said:
Can you work out the gradient of the f(x,y,z) you suggest? Does it give the right force?

No, it gives N not N m.

I'm still not sure what's going on here though. Is it the case that we're NOT trying to just find the magnitude of the gravity vectors on a given domain, but rather searching for some other related function, that will produce a grad vec that when dot producted with a path vector will result in the dimensions that we need in our answer?

I still don't know how they got to their answer.

edit: Oh wait, I think I see what's happening...f(x,y,z) is essentially an antiderivative ?? Thus, we need to be able to get to the grad vec from that f(x,y,z)...??

edit2: yep, that worked, and it made sense...thanks :)
 
Last edited:
kostoglotov said:
This is an example at the beginning of the section on the Fundamental Theorem for Line Integrals.

1. Homework Statement


Find the work done by the gravitational field

[tex]\vec{F}(\vec{x}) = -\frac{mMG}{|\vec{x}|^3}\vec{x}[/tex]

in moving a particle from the point (3,4,12) to (2,2,0) along a piece wise smooth curve

Now, I think that there's a mistake in the solution given...but this textbook is pretty good, and plenty of times in the past I've thought it had made a mistake and really I was mistaken.

So, I understand all the concepts (edit: I obviously didn't), all good there. It's here where I'm scratching my head.

[tex]f(x,y,z) = \frac{mMG}{\sqrt{x^2+y^2+z^2}}[/tex]Standard result: if ##\vec{r} = x\vec{e}_x + y\vec{e}_y + z \vec{e}_z## with magnitude ##r = \sqrt{x^2 + y^2 + z^2}##, then
[tex]\vec{ \nabla} \frac{1}{r} = -\frac{\vec{r}}{r^3}[/tex]
Just look at ##\partial r^{-1} / \, \partial x ## for example.
 

Similar threads

Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
20
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
Replies
4
Views
3K
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K