Linear Polarisability interesting problem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of linear polarizability and its extensions to higher-order terms, specifically focusing on the mathematical representation and physical interpretation of tensors like \(\alpha_{ij}\), \(\beta_{ijk}\), and \(\gamma_{ijkl}\). Participants explore the implications of these tensors in relation to induced electric fields and polarization in materials.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Linear polarizability \(\alpha_{ij}\) describes the induced electric field in the \(i\) direction due to an incident field in the \(j\) direction, as expressed by \(E_i^{induced} = \alpha_{ij} E_j^{incident}\).
  • Participants question the meaning of indices in higher-order terms like \(\beta_{ijk}\) and \(\gamma_{ijkl}\), particularly regarding the physical interpretation of multiple incident fields.
  • One participant suggests that the indices in \(\beta_{ijk}\) or \(\gamma_{ijkl}\) do not need to be distinct, proposing that terms like \(\gamma_{xxxx}\) could represent a specific case.
  • Another participant clarifies that the relationship described by \(\beta\) and \(\gamma\) indicates a non-linear dependence of polarization on the electric field, emphasizing that the fields should be treated as products rather than sums.
  • There is a discussion about the significance of the term \(\gamma_{xxxx}\) and its role in relating the incident electric field to the polarizability of the molecule in a third-order interaction context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of higher-order polarizability tensors and their implications for induced fields and polarization. There is no consensus on the correct physical picture or the significance of specific tensor components.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the relationships between induced fields and the total field, as well as the potential for confusion regarding the roles of different tensor indices. The discussion reflects ongoing uncertainty and exploration of these concepts.

DanSandberg
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Linear Polarisability \alpha_{ij} is the amplitude of the electric field induced in the molecule in the i direction given a unit amplitude field in the j direction, hence

E_i^{induced} = \alpha_{ij} E_j^{incident}
(observing summation convention)

Extending this physical interpretation, \beta_{ijk} (X2) is the amplitude of the electric field induced in the i direction given an unit incident field in the j direction applied after unit incident field in the k direction has already been applied, so

E_i^{induced} = \beta_{ijk} E_j^{incident2} E_k^{indicent1}

But there is a third-order term (and fourth-order and fifth-order, etc.) so what do the indices represent in these cases?

Also, there is only one applied (indicent) field so what does it mean to say "the incident field in the j direction" compared to "the incident field in the k direction"?
 
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DanSandberg said:
Also, there is only one applied (indicent) field so what does it mean to say "the incident field in the j direction" compared to "the incident field in the k direction"?

You just take components in j and k directions from the same incident electric field. I'm not sure about the right "physical picture" concerning \beta_{ijk}.
 


weejee said:
You just take components in j and k directions from the same incident electric field. I'm not sure about the right "physical picture" concerning \beta_{ijk}.

I think you are correct about me being wrong. For example, the third-order term is a fourth-rank tensor. So... in that case its \gammaijkl. If my picture were right then the ith direction induced electric field would be the result of the incident field in jth, kth and lth directions but now we've got too many dimensions, unless two letters are degenerative in some way.

Can anyone help me sort this out?
 


I just want to remark that the polarisability determines not the induced field as a function of the external field but the polarisation as a function of the total field. The total field being the sum of the external and the induced field and the polarization in general not being equal to the induced field but (up to maybe some constants depending on the system of Maxwell equations chosen) P(x,t)=-\int_{-\infty}^t dt' j_{ind}(x,t').
 


Indices in \beta_{ijk} or \gamma_{ijkl} are not necessarily all distinct. We can of course think of something like \gamma_{xxxx}.
 


weejee said:
Indices in \beta_{ijk} or \gamma_{ijkl} are not necessarily all distinct. We can of course think of something like \gamma_{xxxx}.

OKAY! okay. But my question is, what is the SIGNIFICANCE of \gamma_{xxxx}

So by my earlier (and likely incorrect) attempt to explain it, this would be the constant of proportionality between the incident electric field and the polarizability of the molecule for the third-order interaction, where

P(t)x1 = gammax1x2x3x4} (Ex2(t)+Ex3(t)+Ex4(t))

where the polarizability along direction x1 is a function of the incident field in directions x2, x3, and x4

where x1=x2=x3=x4

is this correct?
 


No, it's not the sum but the product of the fields. beta and gamma describe a non-linear dependence of polarization on the field. If the field is linearly polarized, let's say in x direction,
then
P_i=\alpha_{ix}E_x+\beta_{ixx}E_x^2.
 


DrDu said:
No, it's not the sum but the product of the fields. beta and gamma describe a non-linear dependence of polarization on the field. If the field is linearly polarized, let's say in x direction,
then
P_i=\alpha_{ix}E_x+\beta_{ixx}E_x^2.

Okay - I understand now. Thank you very much for your patience with me.
 

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