Location and intensity prediction of wave energy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around methods for determining the location and intensity of a vibration source from a distance, specifically without relying on the Doppler effect. Participants explore analogies with human auditory perception and consider various techniques for sound localization.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the feasibility of locating a vibration source and assessing its intensity without using the Doppler effect, drawing a parallel to human auditory perception.
  • Another participant asserts that information about energy and momentum in fields is contained in the energy-momentum-stress tensor, referencing Noether's theorem and the action principle.
  • A different participant suggests using multiple microphones for triangulation, indicating that phase delay measurements can provide directional information about the source, while intensity can be gauged by the microphones themselves.
  • One participant clarifies that if neither the sound source nor the receiver is moving, the Doppler effect does not apply, and emphasizes that without additional information, one cannot determine the proximity or loudness of a sound source based solely on auditory cues.
  • A participant raises the possibility of the inverse scattering problem as a relevant concept in this context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the methods for determining the location and intensity of sound sources, with no consensus reached on the effectiveness of the proposed approaches or the applicability of the Doppler effect.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding assumptions about the movement of sound sources and receivers, as well as the need for additional sensory information to accurately assess sound intensity and distance.

OTed
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Hello forum,
Is there any method of knowing the location of source and probably intensity of vibration from afar without sorting to a doppler effect?
This is in the same as our auditory sense, when people call us at a distance we could easily approximate how far they are and the volume they speak
 
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What are you talking about? Very generally speaking you can only say that the information about the energy and momentum of fields is in their energy-momentum-stress tensor which follows via Noether's theorem from the action principle, underlying their equation of motion.
 
If you have multiple microphones, you can do some kind of triangulation. If you measure the phase delay between them you can get good information about the direction of the source. And intensity is always measured by the microphone.
 
Hi OTed
welcome to PF :smile:

OTed said:
Is there any method of knowing the location of source and probably intensity of vibration from afar without sorting to a doppler effect?

I suspect you meant to say ... resorting to Doppler effect"...

if neither sound source nor receiver are moving ... there is no Doppler
and where one of them is moving, Doppler only tells you about the speed of one of them in relation to the other
OTed said:
This is in the same as our auditory sense, when people call us at a distance we could easily approximate how far they are and the volume they speak

we cannot do that as you suggest ... as we have no information as to if the person we are hearing is close and speaking quiet or loud or visa versa ... distant and speaking loud or quite

We might be able to use other senses eg. sight and see if the person is visibly close or far, but we still have no direct knowledge on how quiet or loud the person is speakingDave
 
OTed said:
Hello forum,
Is there any method of knowing the location of source and probably intensity of vibration from afar without sorting to a doppler effect?
This is in the same as our auditory sense, when people call us at a distance we could easily approximate how far they are and the volume they speak

Are you referring to the inverse scattering problem?
 

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