Lorentz Invariant Paths in Spacetime

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of Lorentz invariant paths in spacetime, specifically examining the trajectory defined by the equation x² - c²t² = a² and its behavior under Lorentz transformations. Participants explore the implications of this invariance, the nature of the shapes that may possess this property, and the relationship between Lorentz transformations and geometric interpretations in spacetime.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the trajectory x² - c²t² = a² is Lorentz invariant because it retains its form under Lorentz transformations.
  • Others argue that the analogy between Lorentz transformations and ordinary rotations is valid, suggesting that Lorentz boosts can be viewed as hyperbolic rotations.
  • A participant questions the precise meaning of "looks exactly the same" in the context of Lorentz invariance, indicating a need for clarity in definitions.
  • Some participants assert that only hyperbola equations are invariant under Lorentz transformations, while others suggest that any path through spacetime is invariant in the sense that the transformations do not alter the underlying geometry.
  • There is a discussion about proper acceleration, with some participants indicating that the proper acceleration can be expressed in terms of the trajectory parameters.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of Lorentz invariance and the types of shapes that may exhibit this property. While there is some agreement on the invariance of the hyperbola, the broader question of what constitutes a Lorentz invariant shape remains contested.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on specific interpretations of Lorentz transformations and the definitions of invariance, which may not be universally agreed upon. The discussion also highlights the need for precise language when addressing the properties of trajectories in spacetime.

snoopies622
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Last night I was pleasantly surprised to discover that, given a particle trajectory

<br /> x^2 - c^2t^2 = a^2<br />

when viewed through a Lorentz transformation

<br /> x&#039; = \gamma (x-vt)<br />
<br /> t&#039; = \gamma (t - vx/c^2)<br />

produces exactly the same shape

<br /> x&#039;^2 - c^2t&#039;^2 = a^2<br />.

I suppose this is equivalent to the way a circle of radius a looks the same after an ordinary coordinate system rotation. My question is simply, are there shapes besides this hyperbola with this Lorentz invariant property? Thanks.
 
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snoopies622 said:
I suppose this is equivalent to the way a circle of radius aa looks the same after an ordinary coordinate system rotation.

It's analogous, yes. A Lorentz boost is a hyperbolic "rotation".

snoopies622 said:
are there shapes besides this hyperbola with this Lorentz invariant property?

What, exactly, is the property you think is Lorentz invariant here?
 
I would call the trajectory <br /> x^2 - c^2t^2 = a^2<br /> Lorentz invariant because after being subjected to a Lorentz transformation it still looks exactly the same.

This is helpful for me to see how this path represents uniform proper acceleration, since for any instantaneous co-moving reference frame, the rightward acceleration at t=0 (the moment the particle has velocity zero) must be the same as well. <br /> c^2/a<br /> in this case I think.
 
snoopies622 said:
I would call the trajectory ##x^2 - c^2t^2 = a^2## Lorentz invariant because after being subjected to a Lorentz transformation it still looks exactly the same.

What does "looks exactly the same" mean? I know it seems obvious to you, but it's not; you need to carefully state, in precise language, what you mean. Otherwise there is no way to answer the question you posed in the OP, because the question itself is not well defined.
 
snoopies622 said:
This is helpful for me to see how this path represents uniform proper acceleration, since for any instantaneous co-moving reference frame, the rightward acceleration at t=0 (the moment the particle has velocity zero) must be the same as well. ##c^2/a## in this case I think.

As you've written it, yes, ##c^2 / a## is the proper acceleration. Most treatments use ##a## for the proper acceleration, in which case the equation would be ##x^2 - c^2 t^2 = c^4 / a^2##.
 
PeterDonis said:
What does "looks exactly the same" mean?
Well, <br /> x^2 - c^2t^2 = a^2<br /> and x&#039;^2 - c^2t&#039;^2 = a^2<br /> are the same equation, the only difference is the change from one coordinate system (x,t) to the other (x',t').
 
snoopies622 said:
Well, ##x^2 - c^2t^2 = a^2## and ##x'^2 - c^2t'^2 = a^2## are the same equation

Ok, then your question could be rephrased as, what equations relating the coordinates are left invariant by Lorentz transformations. However, you should note that this is not the same question as the one in the title of this thread, what paths are left invariant by Lorentz transformations.

The answer to the "what equations" question is that only the hyperbola equations are left invariant by Lorentz transformations. The analogy with circles and ordinary rotations holds here (the circle equations are the only equations left invariant by Lorentz transformations).

However, any path through spacetime is left invariant by Lorentz transformations; Lorentz transformations don't change the geometry of spacetime, or of curves within it, they only change how that geometry and those curves are described by the coordinates. Again, the analogy with ordinary rotations is instructive: an ordinary rotation doesn't change the geometry of a plane or of curves on it, it only changes how those curves are described by the coordinates.
 

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