Lorentz transformation and Lorentz force

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Lorentz transformation in the context of electromagnetic fields and the Lorentz force. Participants explore the relationship between the transformations of electric and magnetic fields and the force experienced by charged particles in different reference frames, addressing both theoretical and mathematical aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states the Lorentz transformation of the electromagnetic field as ##E'=\gamma(E+v\times B)## and questions the absence of the coefficient ##\gamma## in the Lorentz force expression ##F=E+v\times B##.
  • Another participant argues that the force expression does not require a change of frame, suggesting that ##F'## will include a ##\gamma## factor derived from transforming either the force or the fields.
  • A different participant discusses the transformation of force components when transitioning from one reference frame to another, expressing uncertainty about how to apply the ##\gamma## factor in three dimensions.
  • One participant recommends using four-vector notation to avoid confusion, explaining that momentum is relativistic and providing equations that relate force to the electromagnetic tensor and four-momentum.
  • Another participant clarifies that the equations discussed are valid in any reference frame and emphasizes the need to apply standard Lorentz transforms to the electromagnetic fields when transitioning between frames.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of the ##\gamma## factor in the Lorentz force equation and how to apply transformations in various reference frames. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific treatment of the ##\gamma## factor in force transformations.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of transforming forces and fields across different reference frames, noting the dependence on definitions and the potential for inhomogeneities in the directions of the fields.

sweet springs
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Lorentz transformation of electromagnetic field gives the relation ##E'=\gamma(E+v\times B)##.
Lorentz force per unit charge is given as ##F=E+v\times B## without ##\gamma##.
Don't we need coefficient ##\gamma## for F?
 
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No. Why would you? There's no change of frame involved in the force expression. F' will include a ##\gamma## somewhere, which you can get either from transforming the force or from transforming E, B, and v.
 
Thanks. If I am right the transformation of force from a system S where a particle is moving at v_x to any system S' which is moving relative to system S at a speed -v_x, so the particle is at rest there.

F_x'=F_x,\ F_y'=\gamma F_y,\ F_z'=\gamma F_z

In transforming force from S' ( where only E works ) to S, I am not sure how to deal with gamma in three directions.

P.S. Now I know that E and B also has inhomogeneity in directions and cancel out coefficient gamma. I am happy to confirm that Lorentz force formula holds strictly. Thanks again.
 
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I would urge you to start using four-vector notation. These questions do not arise there. I think what you are missing is that momentum here is 'relativistic', i.e. ##\vec{Force}=d\vec{p}/dt## where ##\vec{p}=\gamma {m} \dot{\vec{r}}##

Assuimng that vector potential is static one can write the equation of motion for a charged point particle (directly from least action):

##\frac{dp_\alpha}{d\tau}=-qu^{\mu}F_{\mu\alpha}##

Where ##p_\alpha## is the covariant four-momentum, ##\tau## is proper time, ##u^\mu## is four-velocity and ##F_{\mu\alpha}## is the electromagnetic tensor, and ##q## is charge. Now we go into 3-dimensions and focus on spatial components:

##d\tau \to dt/\gamma##
##p_{\alpha=1,2,3} \to -\vec{p}##
##u^{\mu} \to \gamma \left(c, \dot{\vec{r}}\right)^\mu ##
##F_{0i} \to \vec{E}/c##
##F_{ij} \to -\epsilon_{ijk}\left(\vec{B}\right)^k##

You thus get

##\frac{d\vec{p}}{dt}=q\left(\vec{E}+\dot{\vec{r}}\times\vec{B}\right)##

Since, by definition ##p_{\alpha}=m u_\alpha=m\gamma\left(c,\dot{\vec{r}}\right)_\alpha=(\dots,\vec{p})_\alpha##, we have ##\vec{p}=\gamma {m} \dot{\vec{r}}##
 
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I should probably clarify. What analysis above tells you is that the equation above is valid in any reference frame, and that when moving between reference frames the electromagnetic fields should be changed using standard Lorentz transforms, to get ##d\vec{p}/dt## which by definition is the force on the object.
 

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