Macs w/ Intel Chip: Get Ready for Better Performance!

[gravenewworld]

Hello. I am in desperate need of a new computer at my house My old laptop completely died the other day. I was interested in getting a mac this time, very likely the powerbook laptop (is this a good choice btw?). How much longer will it be until the new computers come out with the intel chip? will this make macs even better by making it easier to use programs windows uses?

 

[chroot]

Intel-based Macs will not be able to run Windows, because the rest of the supporting hardware is still very different from the PC.

- Warren

 

[dicerandom]

You can spend your entire life waiting around for the next upgrade. Nobody ever really knows when Apple is going to come out with a revision to one of their lines, there's always speculation that at each upcoming Apple event Jobs is going to make an announcement about such-and-such product getting this week's hot new whiz-bang feature and most of the time they're wrong.

The Powerbooks are very good laptops, but which laptop is best for you depends on how you're planning on using it. Are you looking for something that'll just check your email and let you write documents? Do you want to play a lot of games? Are you looking for scientific applications?

 

[gravenewworld]

The Powerbooks are very good laptops, but which laptop is best for you depends on how you're planning on using it. Are you looking for something that'll just check your email and let you write documents? Do you want to play a lot of games? Are you looking for scientific applications?

Pretty much all of the above. I want to play lots of video games, do computational work in chemistry, and possibly some digital design stuff (for making my own dvds etc.).

 

[dicerandom]

Well I don't know much about chemistry software packages, I do know that you can get generic computational software like Mathematica and MatLab for the Mac though. The best DVD authoring software is also available for the Mac. However, when it comes to games the PC reigns supreme. You can get some games on Apple machines (WoW, Doom3, others), but the selection is much wider on the PC.

 

[dduardo]

Mac World is coming up this month and Jobs will probably say something about the new intel machines. I wouldn't doubt if you had to wait until May, if not later, to get a hold of intel powerbooks.

If your going to play games then you probably best sticking with windows. Dell, ibm, etc are all good.

 

[ComputerGeek]

Intel-based Macs will not be able to run Windows, because the rest of the supporting hardware is still very different from the PC.

- Warren

Excuse me?
You know nothing about a mac apparently.

They use 100% stadard technology... no more proprietary junk like in the old days.

the intel macs will be able to run windows no problem.

 

[chroot]

Excuse me?
You know nothing about a mac apparently.
They use 100% stadard technology... no more proprietary junk like in the old days.
the intel macs will be able to run windows no problem.

I rescind. An Intel-based Mac may well be able to run Windows, but an Intel-based PC will not be able to run MacOS, due to an authentication chip built into genuine Apple hardware.

- Warren

 

[ComputerGeek]

I rescind. An Intel-based Mac may well be able to run Windows, but an Intel-based PC will not be able to run MacOS, due to an authentication chip built into genuine Apple hardware.

- Warren

correct. It will probably take the form of using the new intel tech that has it built into teh CPU to stop folks from running on non Mac computers... though if tehy did that, it woudl make it impossible for folks to upgrade their Macs using a new CPU (at least tehy will be able o just drop in a new G-Force or Radeon when drivers are avaialble since Appel will be using standard BIOS, thus providing the standard hardware interface for the GFX card makers. (yay! normaly priced GFX cards)

 

[dicerandom]

an Intel-based PC will not be able to run MacOS, due to an authentication chip built into genuine Apple hardware

Yeah, that'll last for all of a week

 

[iamsharpie]

While I may like OSX, I question why anyone would really want to run it on normal pc hardware that may or may not be supported by apple. Isn't the point of controlling the base hardware to maintain absolute control over the drivers?

If you dictate what hardware the OS supports, then there are fewer problems. If you attempt to put the OS on everything, then you have flexibility. Everything is is just windows.

 

[Anttech]

the intel macs will be able to run windows no problem.

Curious, but how do you know this as Fact?

 

[dduardo]

We don't know if windows will run on an intel mac, but there is a good chance you will be able to.

 

[gravenewworld]

Alright you guys are talking way over my head. If I get a Mac w/ an intel chip and have windows on it, will it then be able to get all the viruses and other crap that normal PCs get? Don't the macs right now have virtually no viruses for them (or is this a myth)?

 

[dduardo]

It is a software problem, not a hardware problem. Install windows anywhere and it will have the same problems. Macs are built on UNIX which has been engineered with proper security.

 

[chroot]

Your Windows installation will be as vulnerable to viruses as any other; your MacOS installation will be as invulnerable as any other.

- Warren

 

[-Job-]

While I may like OSX, I question why anyone would really want to run it on normal pc hardware that may or may not be supported by apple.

Personally i'd like to be able try out the Mac OS without having to buy new hardware, I'm not made of money .
Financially speaking, there's no reason for Apple to not make their OS available for the non-Apple Intel-based machines. I'm confident that if/once they do many people will switch to Apple's OS, because it will just be that much easier to convert.
I think Apple will do their best to prevent Windows from taking over their hardware, but I'm sure they'll make an OSX version that installs on non-Apple intel-based PCs (or at least that makes sense from a marketing perspective). I predict lawsuits.

 

[sameandnot]

you may have the ability to "cross-platform" in the same way that you change "start-up disks". i would wait on buying a windows machine. it's a waste of money, for that junk. wait for the intel-mac... by the way, there are numerous applications for OSX that would satisfy your desires... most on the windows platform are "space-wasters" anyway. check out Apple.com (amongst other sites) and see if you can be satiated by mac. i bet that you can be, but i am solely a mac-user now.
if not a mac, go linux or unix.
windows began as a copy-cat, and will ever be a step behind the ingenuity over at Apple.
Windows began as a theft; it's not even original; completely stolen. they may have taken the market over in the past, but microsoft must, as a result of their stealing the gui, be ever-looking to mac for inspiration and direction. they are like machines with technical ability, but no mind to do anything really creative, or genuinely produced.
ok, enough on my rant about how weak microsoft is in its integrity, and as a creative entity.

once you go mac, you don't go back.

 

[-Job-]

once you go mac, you don't go back.

Unless of course you're willing to throw your hardware away, precisely the reason why i don't have a MAC.
As for your anti-microsoft feeling and biased criticism, no comments.

 

[sameandnot]

Unless of course you're willing to throw your hardware away

what would you have to "throw away" that was still very useful and "contemporary"?

 

[-Job-]

The two OSs that i have right now, Windows 2003 and Suse Linux don't run on the PPC architecture. Which is why if i decided to switch to Mac, i'd be stuck with it, (because i wouldn't be able to install these OSs on the Mac), i'd have to abandon the hardware or pick another Linux distro that runs on it.
This is why i like the idea of having Macs running with an Intel chip.

 

[ComputerGeek]

Personally i'd like to be able try out the Mac OS without having to buy new hardware, I'm not made of money .
Financially speaking, there's no reason for Apple to not make their OS available for the non-Apple Intel-based machines. I'm confident that if/once they do many people will switch to Apple's OS, because it will just be that much easier to convert.
I think Apple will do their best to prevent Windows from taking over their hardware, but I'm sure they'll make an OSX version that installs on non-Apple intel-based PCs (or at least that makes sense from a marketing perspective). I predict lawsuits.

by doing their best to keep windows off, I assume you are referring to the lead engineer saying that they are not going to do anything to keep people from installing windows.

 

[ComputerGeek]

The two OSs that i have right now, Windows 2003 and Suse Linux don't run on the PPC architecture. Which is why if i decided to switch to Mac, i'd be stuck with it, (because i wouldn't be able to install these OSs on the Mac), i'd have to abandon the hardware or pick another Linux distro that runs on it.
This is why i like the idea of having Macs running with an Intel chip.

I like the idea for three reasons...

1) all reports say that OS X screams on the dev systems (though I do not know how much performance gain is attributed to the P4EEs)

2)I can run virtualized OS s in VMware or some other VM software and have them run at full speed, like windows.

3) I can do all my Website testing on ONE box.

 

[dduardo]

The two OSs that i have right now, Windows 2003 and Suse Linux don't run on the PPC architecture. Which is why if i decided to switch to Mac, i'd be stuck with it, (because i wouldn't be able to install these OSs on the Mac), i'd have to abandon the hardware or pick another Linux distro that runs on it.
This is why i like the idea of having Macs running with an Intel chip.

Suse most definitely runs on PPC.

You can get it at opensuse.org:

http://www.opensuse.org/Development_Version#Downloads

 

[dicerandom]

windows began as a copy-cat, and will ever be a step behind the ingenuity over at Apple.
Windows began as a theft; it's not even original; completely stolen. they may have taken the market over in the past, but microsoft must, as a result of their stealing the gui, be ever-looking to mac for inspiration and direction.

You do realize that Xerox PARC developed and marketed a computer with a GUI before either Apple or Microsoft came out with their versions?

 

[-Job-]

Suse most definitely runs on PPC.

You can get it at opensuse.org:

http://www.opensuse.org/Development_Version#Downloads

I stand corrected, i don't remember seing it at Novell's website.

 

[chroot]

You do realize that Xerox PARC developed and marketed a computer with a GUI before either Apple or Microsoft came out with their versions?

And before Xerox, it was an independent researcher at SRI.

- Warren

 

[ComputerGeek]

And before Xerox, it was an independent researcher at SRI.
- Warren

oh lord...

yes, but it did not resemble Mac OS or Windows in any way shape or form.

a concept of a mouse and GUI are one thing (and were actually developed at stanford in 1968) the metaphor is another.

 

[sameandnot]

yes dicerandom, i am aware. the difference is that: evolution of technology, in time, is one thing, while the direct thievery of a contemporary competitor is another.

 

[rho]

Hopefully we only have three days to wait until we finally get some decent mac laptops.

 

[graphic7]

Hopefully we only have three days to wait until we finally get some decent mac laptops.

I'd argue that my Powerbook, which has a PowerPC processor and Openboot, has features unlike any other laptop.

 

[gravenewworld]

they're here!: http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/

 

[dduardo]

The iMacs also come with dual core intel processors.

 

[graphic7]

And before Xerox, it was an independent researcher at SRI.
- Warren

I'm not quite sure about SRI's stake, but from 1980-1981 (two years before the Mac), researchers at Bell Labs (Rob Pike, et. all) developed a graphical environment, as well:

http://herpolhode.com/rob/movies/blit.mpg

 

[Sprinter]

http://www.techworld.com/opsys/features/index.cfm?featureid=2169"

Running windows on MAC is exciting, i hope it will come true.:!)

 

[jtbell]

Mac users have been able to run Windows applications on their Macs for some time through emulation software, including a Microsoft product called Virtual PC. Microsoft plans to update that product to run on the new Intel-based Apple machines, but has not disclosed when.

This is what I'm going to wait for, unless someone else comes up with a good solid cheap way to install and boot Windows directly. Virtual PC should have practically the same performance as native Windows, because it won't have to do that machine-language emulation any more. It would be nicer to use than a native Windows installation because you don't have to re-boot to switch the OS... VPC runs in a window on the Mac desktop, or else it takes over the screen and you use a hot key to switch the OS, I can't remember which.

Of course, you need plenty of RAM in order for this to work fast, because you've effectively got two computers sharing the same RAM. I wonder if they can set up VPC to take advantage of multiprocessor machines by using separate processors for Windows and MacOS?

 

[Moonbear]

The iMacs also come with dual core intel processors.

And mine should be arriving tomorrow! (It was supposed to arrive today, but something got screwed up with FedEx...they claim they were here, but I was home today and nobody came, nor is there a notice on the door indicating I just didn't hear them ) I'm usually the last person to try something new, but I've been thinking about getting myself an iMac for a while for home anyway, and decided I was finally going to buy it and saw the ones with the Intel processors were out when I went to place my order.

The potential downside, in the short term, is that some software that runs on the apple processors may not run with the Intel processor, but it was a short list, nothing I own, and they'll have inexpensive "universal" version upgrades out soon, so if anyone does own that software, you won't have to buy it all new for the Macs with the Intel processors (I think the upgrades were something like $20 if you already own the full version for Mac).

I'll let you know if I'm crying and cursing out the computer after I get it. I spent today cleaning my home office out (moving the computer graveyard to the attic...I don't know why I can't just bring myself to get rid of the old, useless, worthless ones that don't even have enough hard drive space to install any current operating system) and getting everything organized so as soon as it arrives, I'll be able to plug it in and go (well, once I remember all my passwords on my airport network ).

 

[ComputerGeek]

are you a mac person?

And mine should be arriving tomorrow! (It was supposed to arrive today, but something got screwed up with FedEx...they claim they were here, but I was home today and nobody came, nor is there a notice on the door indicating I just didn't hear them ) I'm usually the last person to try something new, but I've been thinking about getting myself an iMac for a while for home anyway, and decided I was finally going to buy it and saw the ones with the Intel processors were out when I went to place my order.
The potential downside, in the short term, is that some software that runs on the apple processors may not run with the Intel processor, but it was a short list, nothing I own, and they'll have inexpensive "universal" version upgrades out soon, so if anyone does own that software, you won't have to buy it all new for the Macs with the Intel processors (I think the upgrades were something like $20 if you already own the full version for Mac).
I'll let you know if I'm crying and cursing out the computer after I get it. I spent today cleaning my home office out (moving the computer graveyard to the attic...I don't know why I can't just bring myself to get rid of the old, useless, worthless ones that don't even have enough hard drive space to install any current operating system) and getting everything organized so as soon as it arrives, I'll be able to plug it in and go (well, once I remember all my passwords on my airport network ).

Because if not, there will be a transition period to get use to the different quirks that OS X has as opposed to Windows quirks.

 

[Moonbear]

Hopefully we only have three days to wait until we finally get some decent mac laptops.

Why would you say that? I'm quite happy with my laptop. Or do you mean because they could possibly make them even smaller to really compete with the ultra-lightweight laptops? My understanding is that is part of the incentive behind going with the Intel processors, because not only can they run faster than the apple processors, but they are smaller, so slimmer cases can be used as they develop new computers that take further advantage of these processors.

 

[Moonbear]

Because if not, there will be a transition period to get use to the different quirks that OS X has as opposed to Windows quirks.

If not what? What part of my post were you responding to?

I'm already a Mac user, so I'm comfortable with OSX already. I have a harder time with Windows, because I use it so infrequently now that I forget where to find things (the lab has a PC running XP, but I try to avoid using it as much as possible because it seems to get a new virus every week...a combination of Windows vulnerability and far too many users who are too clueless to not open the emails containing viruses).

 

[ComputerGeek]

If not what? What part of my post were you responding to?
I'm already a Mac user, so I'm comfortable with OSX already. I have a harder time with Windows, because I use it so infrequently now that I forget where to find things (the lab has a PC running XP, but I try to avoid using it as much as possible because it seems to get a new virus every week...a combination of Windows vulnerability and far too many users who are too clueless to not open the emails containing viruses).

heh... I had the beginning of the post in the title section ...

Bad Slashdot habbit

 

[Moonbear]

heh... I had the beginning of the post in the title section ...
Bad Slashdot habbit

Oh...hee hee. I didn't even see the title. Guess I managed to answer your question anyway.

 

[dduardo]

If you want a good deal for a mac you can get one here:

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=318372&pfp=cat3

 

[Moonbear]

If you want a good deal for a mac you can get one here:

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=318372&pfp=cat3

How are they managing to sell one with only 256 MB of RAM? That doesn't even exist on Apple's site.

 

[Moonbear]

I got my new toy! It's here! Only one annoying thing...I didn't realize that if you get the wireless keyboard and mouse, you don't get a mighty mouse...I guess those are only wired. I'm going to double check the specs to make sure they didn't shortchange me on the right mouse, but I probably just read it wrong assuming that I was getting a mighty mouse.

Oh, the other issue is that they really could have made the power cord a bit longer. Not everyone has conveniently placed outlets, and I don't like having to put the surge protector out so far from the wall since then you can see the ugly tangle of cords.

And if you get one...the back-up disks are hiding in the bottom of the box the mouse comes in...lift up all the little bits of cardboard in there, because it's not intuitive that there's more in there (I thought they forgot to pack them and was about to call and complain when one last dig through the packing material revealed them in that well-hidden location).

 

[graphic7]

Well, despite my utter disappointment that Apple will not be porting OpenFirmware to these x86 systems, I'm now on the pre-order list for a MacBook pro. Being a UNIX administrator, I sometimes find myself on the road needing a portable UNIX solution, like a laptop, and Apple is obviously the best route to go (I've been highly pleased with my Powerbook G4, whereas the next serious portable UNIX solution is from something like Tadpole and Naturetech and those notebooks with a proper configuration cost around $10k).

What's comforting, though, is that these x86 systems will have Intel's EFI, which is somewhat like OpenFirmware (the only reason I came close to purchasing the MacBook Pro). EFI, in the future, will allow you to perhaps run Mac OS X and Windows side by side in a non-emulated environment, as all calls the OS makes is to EFI -- not to the hardware. So, you won't be seeing products that actually do emulation, like Virtual PC, you'll be seeing products that can use EFI from OS X to start a new OS instance to run Windows, for example.

 

[ComputerGeek]

Well, despite my utter disappointment that Apple will not be porting OpenFirmware to these x86 systems, I'm now on the pre-order list for a MacBook pro. Being a UNIX administrator, I sometimes find myself on the road needing a portable UNIX solution, like a laptop, and Apple is obviously the best route to go (I've been highly pleased with my Powerbook G4, whereas the next serious portable UNIX solution is from something like Tadpole and Naturetech and those notebooks with a proper configuration cost around $10k).

What's comforting, though, is that these x86 systems will have Intel's EFI, which is somewhat like OpenFirmware (the only reason I came close to purchasing the MacBook Pro). EFI, in the future, will allow you to perhaps run Mac OS X and Windows side by side in a non-emulated environment, as all calls the OS makes is to EFI -- not to the hardware. So, you won't be seeing products that actually do emulation, like Virtual PC, you'll be seeing products that can use EFI from OS X to start a new OS instance to run Windows, for example.

Well... EFI is a work-a-like, and I am EXCITED that they are using a PC based solution rather than openFirmware... that means that the GFX card companies can not gouge the mac any longer.