Magnetohydrodynamic Generator (POPTOR 2005)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem from POPTOR 2005 regarding a magnetohydrodynamic generator that involves a parallel-plate capacitor immersed in a conductive liquid. Participants explore the relationship between the voltage generated by the capacitor and the internal resistance of the fluid, as well as the implications for current flow through a connected resistor.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the voltage across the capacitor is given by vBd, where v is the fluid velocity, B is the magnetic field strength, and d is the distance between the plates.
  • Another participant argues that the internal resistance of the fluid must be considered because it completes the circuit, similar to how internal resistance is accounted for in conventional generators.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about the role of internal resistance, questioning why it matters if the voltage difference is constant across the capacitor plates.
  • It is noted that while the capacitor provides a constant voltage, the electromotive force (emf) must still overcome the resistance in the fluid for current to flow, paralleling conventional electrical circuits.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the significance of the internal resistance of the fluid in relation to the voltage generated by the capacitor. There are competing views on how the internal resistance affects the overall circuit behavior.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the concept of internal resistance and its implications in the context of the problem. There are assumptions about the behavior of the fluid and the capacitor that remain unexamined.

EFuzzy
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There was an interesting problem that appeared in POPTOR 2005:

A generator consists of a parallel-plate capacitor immersed in a stream of conductive liquid with conductivity [tex]\sigma[/tex]. The surface area of a capacitor's plate is S, the distance between the plates is d. A liquid flows with constant velocity v parallel to the plates. The capacitor is in a uniform magnetic field B, which is perpendicular to the velocity and parallel to the plates. If the plates are connected to a resistor R, what is the current that flows through the resistor?

I understand that the free charges inside the conductive liquid will feel a magnetic force, and thus begin "build up" on the plates. "Build up" is in quotation marks because I think that the charges are still moving with the liquid flow, but are right up against the plates. This will continue until an electrostatic field is established that perfectly cancels out the magnetic forces acting on the free charges in the moving fluids. Thus the voltage of the capacitor by itself would be vBd. I would then divide that voltage by R to get the current through the resistor.
However, the solution that POPTOR gives is that the capacitor is in series with both R and the "internal resistance" of the fluid. Why does the resistance of the fluid matter? The voltage between the two plates is vBd regardless of the fluid inside.
 
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EFuzzy said:
However, the solution that POPTOR gives is that the capacitor is in series with both R and the "internal resistance" of the fluid. Why does the resistance of the fluid matter? The voltage between the two plates is vBd regardless of the fluid inside.

It would be because the fluid is the final resistor that completes the circuit. Every voltage source has an "internal resistance" in series with it's electromotive force and it should be included for Ohm's law to accurately determine the resistance of the circuit.
 
I guess the problem is that I don't fully understand how the internal resistance works. The voltage difference from one plate to the other is going to be vBd, so why does it matter what's going on between the plates? All the resistor will notice is that the capacitor provides some constant voltage.
 
EFuzzy said:
I guess the problem is that I don't fully understand how the internal resistance works. The voltage difference from one plate to the other is going to be vBd, so why does it matter what's going on between the plates? All the resistor will notice is that the capacitor provides some constant voltage.

I should perhaps say, that I'm just having a shrewd guess at thinks here, so I welcome other opinions as well.

It is correct that the capacitor supplies a constant voltage, but the emf still has to overcome the resistance in the fluid, just like a conventional generator has to overcome the resistance in the copper wires in the coils. It matters not very much where in the circut the emf is generated, the total resistance is still the sum of all serial resistances in the circiut.
 

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