Managing Chemical Sensitivity & ER Visit

[turbo]

I couldn't name just one.

I put medical people right up there...esp people who work in the ER. Tsu could tell you stories for hours that would have many here in tears in minutes. It takes a very special person to do that sort of work and really care about the patients, and not commit suicide.

True. I managed to drive myself to the hospital after being exposed to fragrances at work, and the triage nurse just waved me in based on my appearance. The intake nurse clocked my BP at 208/80 and shoved me into the ER. The ER nurse assigned to me was a classmate of my wife and contacted her at work so she could be at my side during this attack. It was NOT fun at all. Asthma, migraines, and arthritis flare-ups are routine with exposure to fragrances, but the BP thing was extreme. The intern at the ER wanted to keep me overnight, and I asked if he could personally guarantee that no nurse, orderly, or other staff members would stay out of my room if they were wearing colognes, after-shaves, or scented cosmetics, and he said "certainly not", so I insisted on going home with my wife even though my condition could get worse. It may get me eventually, but not today. (A BIG thanks to Astronuc and family for coming up here fragrance-free so my wife and I could enjoy their company! All of the Astronuc clan are sweet and entertaining!)

 

[Evo]

True. I managed to drive myself to the hospital after being exposed to fragrances at work, and the triage nurse just waved me in based on my appearance. The intake nurse clocked my BP at 208/80 and shoved me into the ER. The ER nurse assigned to me was a classmate of my wife and contacted her at work so she could be at my side during this attack. It was NOT fun at all. Asthma, migraines, and arthritis flare-ups are routine with exposure to fragrances, but the BP thing was extreme. The intern at the ER wanted to keep me overnight, and I asked if he could personally guarantee that no nurse, orderly, or other staff members would stay out of my room if they were wearing colognes, after-shaves, or scented cosmetics, and he said "certainly not", so I insisted on going home with my wife even though my condition could get worse. It may get me eventually, but not today. (A BIG thanks to Astronuc and family for coming up here fragrance-free so my wife and I could enjoy their company! All of the Astronuc clan are sweet and entertaining!)

I had a BP reading of 172 over 70 when I had the flu once and it was explained to me that pain, fear, anxiety etc,, would cause the upper reading (systolic) to be high and that was to be expected, but as long as the lower reading (diastolic) was within normal ranges, there was nothing to be concerned about as long as it returned to normal.

My brother suffers from panic attacks and had similar BP readings to yours when he went to the ER.

Turbo, have you had scratch tests to confirm your allergies? The only ingredient in a fragrance that could be common is ethyl alcohol. What exactly could you be allergic to? Fragrance is not an ingredient, it can be anything. Maybe there is some other cause for your symptoms?

As far as I know a person cannot be generically allergic to "fragrance" as it can be millions of things.

 

[turbo]

Turbo, have you had scratch tests to confirm your allergies? The only ingredient in a fragrance that could be common is ethyl alcohol. What exactly could you be allergic to? Fragrance is not an ingredient, it can be anything. Maybe there is some other cause for your symptoms?

I have had a ton of scratch tests and none of them explain my sensitivities to fragrances. The fragrance industry is protected by antiquated "perfume laws" from ever having to reveal the chemicals that they use, even if those chemicals are carcinogen's. No other industry in this country has that freedom to poison our air.

 

[Evo]

I have had a ton of scratch tests and none of them explain my sensitivities to fragrances. The fragrance is protected by the "perfume laws" from ever having to reveal the chemical that they use, even if those chemicals are carcinogen's. No other industry in this country has that freedom to poison our air.

But every fragrance has something different in it. Roses, sandalwood, musk, peonies, apple blossoms, cinnamon, the list is endless. You wouldn't be able to breathe the air around you.

There has got to be another explantion, this one doesn't make sense.

I am a severe allergy sufferer, so I understand. I spent 2 weeks in an allergy clinic in another state undergoing several hundred scratch tests on my back (they have to do them on your back due to the amount of skin required). They can only do 20 tests at a time. It's a horrible, painful ordeal, the huge swollen welts from the allergens, then shots to desensitize you afterwards, then more scratches...

After the tests I was hospitalized for kidney trouble due to my body trying to get rid of all the toxins.

 

[turbo]

I love flowers, spices, and all other natural fragrances. The chemicals used to produce analogs to these fragrances make me deathly ill and can kill me. I don't know why this is so, and anybody who can figure it out can become an instant millionaire. There are a lot of people like me that have to isolate themselves from society, friends, and even non-compliant family members in order to stay alive. It's not fun.

 

[Astronuc]

Two offending classes of compounds are phthalate esters and synthetic musks.

I find most perfumes and colognes irritating, and most middle-aged and elderly women use way too much perfume probably because they lose their sense of smell and so overdo it. I have no problem with ethanol.

Anyway, Professor Thomas Kearns has published a book: Environmentally Induced Illnesses : Ethics, Risk Assessment and Human Rights, in which is discusses the problem of chemical sensitivity.

"The fragrances in aftershaves, perfume, hair spray, cologne, detergents, shampoos, and many other products we encounter every day contain solvents and neurotoxic chemicals which cause severe physical reactions in those people who have become sensitized to them. These reactions can be mild, such as a slight headache or a sudden inability to think or concentrate, which might not even be recognized as the result of exposure to fragrance; or can sometimes be severe, such as a migraine or an asthma attack, and can interfere seriously not only with study but even with the ability to breathe. The National Academy of Sciences has estimated that approximately fifteen percent of the population suffers from some level of chemical sensitivity." T. Kerns, North Seattle Community College, Letter explaining the Policy on Indoor Air Quality & Chemical Sensitivity

 

[Evo]

I love flowers, spices, and all other natural fragrances. The chemicals used to produce analogs to these fragrances make me deathly ill and can kill me. I don't know why this is so, and anybody who can figure it out can become an instant millionaire. There are a lot of people like me that have to isolate themselves from society, friends, and even non-compliant family members in order to stay alive. It's not fun.

But it can't be all. My favorite perfume is Joy by Jean Patou, a perfume made in France in 1935 with roses and ambergris. There is no such thing as a set of chemicals that all perfumers use.

I think something set off your attacks, but I'm thinking the doctor's blew you off.

 

[turbo]

Two offending classes of compounds are phthalate esters and synthetic musks.

I find most perfumes and colognes irritating, and most middle-aged and elderly women use way too much perfume probably because they lose their sense of smell and so overdo it. I have no problem with ethanol.

Anyway, Professor Thomas Kearns has published a book: Environmentally Induced Illnesses : Ethics, Risk Assessment and Human Rights, in which is discusses the problem of chemical sensitivity.

"The fragrances in aftershaves, perfume, hair spray, cologne, detergents, shampoos, and many other products we encounter every day contain solvents and neurotoxic chemicals which cause severe physical reactions in those people who have become sensitized to them. These reactions can be mild, such as a slight headache or a sudden inability to think or concentrate, which might not even be recognized as the result of exposure to fragrance; or can sometimes be severe, such as a migraine or an asthma attack, and can interfere seriously not only with study but even with the ability to breathe. The National Academy of Sciences has estimated that approximately fifteen percent of the population suffers from some level of chemical sensitivity." T. Kerns, North Seattle Community College, Letter explaining the Policy on Indoor Air Quality & Chemical Sensitivity

Thank you, Astronuc. I don't always have the energy or motivation to keep explaining why I have been so badly disabled by this environmental problem, nor why I have been at death's door in an ER. People who aren't directly affected by environmental contamination by fragrance chemicals do not have a clue how bad this can be. Why is ADD and asthma on the rise in little kids? Is it because their parents the the parents of their classmates insist on bathing them in fragrances, including detergents and fabric softeners, and room deodorizers so that the kids never breathe a clean breath?

 

[Astronuc]

But it can't be all. My favorite perfume is Joy by Jean Patou, a perfume made in France in 1935 with roses and ambergris.

Send me a sample because I'd be interested how it compares to other fragranced perfurmes.

There is no such thing as a set of chemicals that all perfumers use.

This is true. High end products which use natural compounds maybe OK, but most colognes and perfumes use less expensive 'artificial' or synthetic compounds, and therein lies the problem.

There is a condition recognized as Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, which is likely what turbo is describing.

p.s. One might want to split this discussion off into a separate thread since we've drifted from respected/respectable job to Chemical Sensitivity.

 

[Evo]

I'm not doubting that turbo's reactions aren't real, I think they may have been mis-diagnosed.

 

[Evo]

Send me a sample because I'd be interested how it compares to other fragranced perfurmes.

In your dreams, it's one of the world's most expensive perfumes.

My allergist explained to me that they were testing for common ingredients found in cheap colognes, perfumes, etc.. Believe me, a competant allergy specialist will know chemical coumpounds found in over the counter perfumes.

It also one thing to have an allergic reaction to something that you come into direct contact with and something you sniff in the air around you.

That no doctor isolated what turbo was allergic to makes me angry. You can get a chemical analysis of a fragrance for not too much. Worse case you could scratch open your skin and put some in and see if an allergic reaction occurs. This is not like a reaction caused by an irritant.

If they do not really know what has caused turbo's problems, then he's still at risk, and I like turbo, and I don't feel confident that he's been diagnosed correctly.

 

[turbo]

I'm not doubting that turbo's reactions aren't real, I think they may have been mis-diagnosed.

I have no idea of how such reactions can be diagnosed, but when I am exposed to some perfume or cologne and end up in the emergency room, I've got to pay attention, especially since a bout of atrial fibrillation about 8 years ago left me with a brain-stem stroke, resulting in poor motor control in my left leg and no real temperature sensation in my right leg. My right foot burns constantly, and my neurologist says that if my right leg was cut off, I would still feel that constant burn because the damage is in my brain-stem and not in my leg. I put up with it. Not fun, but it's not going to ruin my life.

 

[Astronuc]

In your dreams, it's one of the world's most expensive perfumes.

I don't have those kinds of dreams. I didn't know that it was one of the world's most expensive perfumes. I thought since it was one of your favorites, that you had some.

My allergist explained to me that they were testing for common ingredients found in cheap colognes, perfumes, etc.. Believe me, a competent allergy specialist will know chemical coumpounds found in over the counter perfumes.

It also one thing to have an allergic reaction to something that you come into direct contact with and something you sniff in the air around you.

If I sniff one flower of a certain plant, my face will swell and I will have an unpleasant reaction.

That no doctor isolated what turbo was allergic to makes me angry. You can get a chemical analysis of a fragrance for not too much. Worse case you could scratch open your skin and put some in and see if an allergic reaction occurs. This is not like a reaction caused by an irritant.

If they do not really know what has caused turbo's problems, then he's still at risk, and I like turbo, and I don't feel confident that he's been diagnosed correctly.

Thomas Kerns has indicated that Multiple Chemical Sensitivity is not well understood or studied.

My internal physiology is a little different and most doctors have no experience with it. I have noticed that when it comes to unusual medical conditions, there are few doctors/speicalists who know how to diagnose or treat them. I suspect that where turbo lives, that is the situation.

While turbo and I were on our hike, some lady passed us on the trail. She reeked of some fragrance such that even I held my breath as she passed. It was more unpleasant for turbo.

 

[Evo]

My internal physiology is a little different and most doctors have no experience with it. I have noticed that when it comes to unusual medical conditions, there are few doctors/speicalists who know how to diagnose or treat them.

Alien?

 

[turbo]

Thomas Kerns has indicated that Multiple Chemical Sensitivity is not well understood or studied.

I have been seen by prominent allergists, and perhaps the most prominent doctor specializing in chemical injuries in the northeast, and they have tried me on dozens of medications, to no avail. I have been scratch-tested and have undergone over a year's worth of desensitization shots in the hopes that minimizing sensitivity to common allergens would get my immune system settled down - no help. It's an all-day drive to get to Dartmouth-Hitchcock from here and my wife has to take a day off from work to come with me in case I get exposed to perfumes in the hospital and can't drive home.

One of the scariest things to encounter is "masking fragrances" that are often put into "unscented" cosmetics to hide the smells of the other ingredients. Unscented Oil of Olay moisturizing lotion can put me down for the count and I can't get any warning from an odor because the masking fragrances are designed to shut down your olfactory nerves. I only know I'm around this stuff when it's too late.

Here is a list of the stuff that the EPA found in common cleaning products, cosmetics, shampoos, etc in 1991. Still the industries retain the right to bundle all these compounds together and list "fragrances" on the label, so you don't know what you're exposing yourself and others to.
http://ourlittleplace.com/chemicals.html

 

[Astronuc]

Alien?

Yes, but I'm legal.

Most doctors, who are more than likely non-specialists, find my X-rays a bit confusing. Some parts are not in the usual place or orientation.

 

[Evo]

Yes, but I'm legal.

Most doctors, who are more than likely non-specialists, find my X-rays a bit confusing. Some parts are not in the usual place or orientation.

Are you one of those people that have their internal organs reversed?

BTW, we just had our annual wellness day at work, I got my flu shot (hope it works), also got my body fat, BMI, cholesterol and blood sugar checked. I'm the healthiest person in the office!

Body fat/BMI in ideal range
Glucose was 105 (under 110 is ideal)
total cholesterol 187 (under 200 is ideal)
HDL 68 (higher than 40 is objective)
TC/HDL ratio 2.7 (less than 4.5 is objective)

And I eat anything I want, if I crave a big bucket of grease (aka Kentucky Fried chicken) I splurge. 15,000 calorie 2/3 lb angus beef burgers with bacon, cheese, mayonaise and curly fries. No problem. And I eat all the runny eggs I want.

WOOT!

 

[Astronuc]

Are you one of those people that have their internal organs reversed?

That would be total or complete visceral situs inversus. Fortunately I don't have that. I'm not inverted - just a different orientation, plus a slightly different circulatory system.

BTW, we just had our annual wellness day at work, I got my flu shot (hope it works), also got my body fat, BMI, cholesterol and blood sugar checked. I'm the healthiest person in the office!

Probably the cutest one too!

Body fat/BMI in ideal range
Glucose was 105 (under 110 is ideal)
total cholesterol 187 (under 200 is ideal)
HDL 68 (higher than 40 is objective)
TC/HDL ratio 2.7 (less than 4.5 is objective)

And I eat anything I want, if I crave a big bucket of grease (aka Kentucky Fried chicken) I splurge. 15,000 calorie 2/3 lb angus beef burgers with bacon, cheese, mayonaise and curly fries. No problem. And I eat all the runny eggs I want.

WOOT!

Congratulations! My numbers are similar. Just don't overdo it on KFC. That burger sounds really good.

My body fat is in the low range, but my BMI is in the upper range - which means I volumetrically bigger than normal for my height, but that is mostly bone, viscera and muscle for years of weight training or heavy work.

 

[Moonbear]

It may not even be all fragrances, but just the ones that have common chemicals that turbo notices because you can't really help but notice if you're having that sort of reaction. Who knows, it could be so many due to some common ingredient used as a carrier, even if the actual fragrance is different.

I was getting headaches pretty much every day last week and couldn't figure out why. I'd feel better if I went out, and it would return while I was home. I finally traced it to a scented candle I had put out with the holiday decorations...it's a pretty candle, but even without noticing the scent right away, it was giving me headaches. I've wrapped it in plastic wrap now, so I can still see the ornament but not smell the candle, and that same day, the headaches stopped. I've had that same problem with air fresheners. Not every scented candle does that to me though, so that's why I don't notice right away. There is a certain "perfumy" smell that regularly gives me headaches though.

 

[Evo]

It may not even be all fragrances, but just the ones that have common chemicals that turbo notices because you can't really help but notice if you're having that sort of reaction. Who knows, it could be so many due to some common ingredient used as a carrier, even if the actual fragrance is different.

I was getting headaches pretty much every day last week and couldn't figure out why. I'd feel better if I went out, and it would return while I was home. I finally traced it to a scented candle I had put out with the holiday decorations...it's a pretty candle, but even without noticing the scent right away, it was giving me headaches. I've wrapped it in plastic wrap now, so I can still see the ornament but not smell the candle, and that same day, the headaches stopped. I've had that same problem with air fresheners. Not every scented candle does that to me though, so that's why I don't notice right away. There is a certain "perfumy" smell that regularly gives me headaches though.

I can't stand musk or cloves. Not allergic to them, but the smell makes me

 

[hypatia]

Back when the purfume ladies at the store would just come up and spray you without consent, I had a really horrid reaction. Almost at once, I couldn't breath, and I was rushed to the ER.
It happened{the same type of reaction} again several years later, but at a petting zoo. I sat down with a group of baby pigs, and with in a minute I couldn't breath. I found out later the pigs had been treated with a chemical dip about a hour befor I saw them.
After the second time being exposed to what ever it was, I noticed a change in me. I can not even go near a purfume counter at a store, being near chemical fertilizers{lawn mostly} makes me dizzy and queezy. Dryer softener sheets also have this same effect as do some soaps, shampoos and laundry soaps.

 

[Moonbear]

That would be total or complete visceral situs inversus. Fortunately I don't have that. I'm not inverted - just a different orientation, plus a slightly different circulatory system.

Probably good that everything isn't reversed, or else they might keep blaming the x-ray technician for putting the label on the wrong side.

 

[Moonbear]

Back when the purfume ladies at the store would just come up and spray you without consent, I had a really horrid reaction. Almost at once, I couldn't breath, and I was rushed to the ER.
It happened{the same type of reaction} again several years later, but at a petting zoo. I sat down with a group of baby pigs, and with in a minute I couldn't breath. I found out later the pigs had been treated with a chemical dip about a hour befor I saw them.
After the second time being exposed to what ever it was, I noticed a change in me. I can not even go near a purfume counter at a store, being near chemical fertilizers{lawn mostly} makes me dizzy and queezy. Dryer softener sheets also have this same effect as do some soaps, shampoos and laundry soaps.

This, and Evo's comment about certain things making her nauseous has me wondering if some of these chemical sensitivities are something like a conditioned taste aversion gone awry, in other words, it's not the fragrance itself that made you sick, but something else along with it, but the scent is what your mind is recalling and associating with the experience. With a conditioned taste aversion, if for example, you eat some food that's tainted, the smell or taste of that food will continue to make you feel ill every time you're around it, even when it's no longer tainted. It keeps you from eating things that make you sick. Perhaps the same can happen with a scent, and while some of us just feel nauseous or a little headache, others may have an exaggerated response. It would make sense then that it wouldn't give a reaction in a scratch test, because it's not really an immune response, but something more neurally mediated. It would also explain how so many different fragrances could elicit similar reactions if your nose can't dissociate the differences between the scents. Hmmm...I'm going to ponder this some more, lest I need to send myself a warning for getting overly speculative. Or maybe we need to hold this discussion in S&D...we know that chemical sensitivities happen, but have no idea what the basis of them really is. Of course, if it's like a conditioned taste aversion, it's not going to help knowing that, because there's no "cure" for that either.

 

[Evo]

I remembered last night about an incident the Evo Child had a few years ago. She was spending the night with a friend and felt funny, when she went into the bathroom, she noticed she was covered with red welts (hives), this scared her and brought on a panic attack. Of course she did not realize that she was having a panic attack and thought she was dying from some allergic reaction and had her friend take her to the ER. Her BP and heart rate were so elevated that they called in a cardiologist and they ran all kinds of tests until they realized she was having panic attack brought on by the rash frightening her. It seems similar to turbo's symptoms, perhaps without the hives.

 

[turbo]

This, and Evo's comment about certain things making her nauseous has me wondering if some of these chemical sensitivities are something like a conditioned taste aversion gone awry, in other words, it's not the fragrance itself that made you sick, but something else along with it, but the scent is what your mind is recalling and associating with the experience.

This is definitely not the case for me, because I still get reactions when my sinuses are plugged up from a bad head cold and I can't smell a thing. I also react violently to masking fragrances, which I can't smell at all. Years back, my wife was having trouble with dry skin one winter, and her regular Nature's Gate Herbal lotion wasn't cutting it, so she brought home some Oil of Olay Unscented moisturizing lotion and as soon as she squirted some on her hands, I started gasping for air and ran outdoors. That stuff is MEAN, and I couldn't smell a thing - my lungs seized up immediately and the subsequent migraine was nasty.

 

[Art]

This is definitely not the case for me, because I still get reactions when my sinuses are plugged up from a bad head cold and I can't smell a thing. I also react violently to masking fragrances, which I can't smell at all. Years back, my wife was having trouble with dry skin one winter, and her regular Nature's Gate Herbal lotion wasn't cutting it, so she brought home some Oil of Olay Unscented moisturizing lotion and as soon as she squirted some on her hands, I started gasping for air and ran outdoors. That stuff is MEAN, and I couldn't smell a thing - my lungs seized up immediately and the subsequent migraine was nasty.

You'd better be nice to her as she now knows how to commit the perfect murder

 

[turbo]

I remembered last night about an incident the Evo Child had a few years ago. She was spending the night with a friend and felt funny, when she went into the bathroom, she noticed she was covered with red welts (hives), this scared her and brought on a panic attack. Of course she did not realize that she was having a panic attack and thought she was dying from some allergic reaction and had her friend take her to the ER. Her BP and heart rate were so elevated that they called in a cardiologist and they ran all kinds of tests until they realized she was having panic attack brought on by the rash frightening her. It seems similar to turbo's symptoms, perhaps without the hives.

No, I get hives, too, but it's such a minor component of the reaction compared to asthma, migraines and severe flare-up of my arthritic knees that I didn't mention hives. I'm an old hand at these exposures/reactions, so I just try to distance myself from the source and ride it out. I was not in a panic when I drove myself to the ER, I was feeling much odder than during normal reactions, with severe mental disorientation (I REALLY should not have been driving) and I thought that if the reaction kept getting worse, at least I'd be in an ER waiting room riding it out, so I could ask for assistance - simple caution. The triage nurse took one look at me and waved me in - no ID, no insurance card, no nothing. I must have looked really bad. By the time my wife got to the ER, my hands and feet were blue and frigid - my body was shutting off circulation to my extremities, probably to keep blood going to the brain to ward off shock.

Each reaction seems to last longer and longer, so I do my very best to avoid exposure. Thankfully the headaches usually subside within 8-10 hours, but the joint pain lasts for a couple of days, and I have to try to stay off my feet. My hands and feet ache, but the worst pain is in the knees.

A couple of weeks ago, we were in the sights of a hurricane remnant, and I wanted to stock up on gas for the generator, so I hauled a bunch of gas cans to the nearest gas station that has pay-at-the-pump credit card capabilities (I really do not want to go inside to pay except if it's an emergency, and even then I pump to an exact dollar amount that I have in my pocket, dash inside holding my breath and toss the money on the counter. Anyway, I had filled up all my gas cans (lined up on the ground) when a VERY colorfully-dressed middle-aged woman with ornaments dangling from her rear-view, pulled in at the next pump. One breath later, I was running to get up-wind of her and stayed a good distance away until she had filled up, paid, and drove off. I would have jumped in my truck and made my get-away, but I still had over $50 worth of gas (and my cans) sitting on the pavement. I wanted to suggest that she not bathe in perfume, but she would not have understood the problem and would have been insulted.

 

[turbo]

You'd better be nice to her as she now knows how to commit the perfect murder

It's even easier than that. All she has to do is sneak a good dose of MSG into my food. Anaphylactic shock will take me out very quickly. I had a bowl of gumbo for breakfast that she had made the night before with some "Cajun seasoning" that never mentioned any of the many MSG aliases on the label, and headed out to a sales call in Lincoln. By the time I got there, I was in trouble. I managed to find the hospital, and the door to the ER and was immediately loaded into a wheelchair and wheeled off for treatment. I was barely conscious, and when the doctor asked about my allergic reaction, I said "MSG" and asked for epinephrine, but she said something to the ER nurses that MSG doesn't do this to people. What people say about people in shock or unconscious being aware of their surroundings is true. I remember the nurse on my right side reciting dropping BP readings, and then she cursed at the doctor (another woman) and said "Epinephrine now! We're losing him!" That wasn't comforting. Anyway, once the epinephrine started kicking in, the doctor and both nurses (all females) were very busy holding me down during a long bout of convulsions. When the convulsions subsided, they packed me in heated blankets and when I woke up hours later (sleeping after a massive dose of epinephrine?!) I felt like I had been beaten with baseball bats over every inch of my body. One of the nurses went out to get the doctor, and when she came in, they got busy doing something else and the doctor apologized for withholding epinephrine and started crying.

Just a dash of MSG - I'm easy to get rid of if you need me gone.

 

[Astronuc]

Probably good that everything isn't reversed, or else they might keep blaming the x-ray technician for putting the label on the wrong side.

I have stood with doctors while they flipped my X-rays over and over several times then asked the radiologist if they made a mistake.

When I was very young, my elementary school (in Australia) had visiting doctors give us physicals (national healthcare type of thing). One doctor just about panicked because he thought my heart wasn't working properly - well at first he could hear my heartbeat. Some time later, I was called to the nurses office where I was seen by a specialist.


As for senstivity to chemicals, I've driven through the Ruhr valley and through Texas and Louisiana (Beaumont, TX to Baton Rouge, LA) and ended up with a rash due to the slightest trace of petrochemcials in the air, particular sulfur-bearing chemicals like thiols or sulfur dioxide. The odors were barely noticeable. In the case of the Ruhr Valley, outside of Dusseldorf, I developed a rather sour taste in my throat due the sulfur dioxide. On the other hand, I do not have a sensetivity to sulfites. Go figure.

 

[Art]

I grew up in Coventry, England when every house had a coal fire so the winter months which were bitter cold was just one permanent filthy smog as Coventry lay in a valley. Being an industrial centre with, at that time, no pollution controls the many factories there piped their industrial effluence directly into Coventry's small river which we as kids swam in. Although we did try to avoid swimming through the obvious yellow or white puddles floating on the surface God knows what chemicals we were exposed to but we survived. Looking back we were far more in danger of burning in the water than drowning

Funny thing is the exposure to massive levels of pollution never caused any health problems. To this day neither I nor any of my 3 siblings have spent a single day of our collective 180 years in hospital through illness and rarely need to even see a GP. In fact I've seen a GP only three times in the past 20 years and all 3 visits were for new employment work mandated medicals.

I hasten to add I am not suggesting everybody be exposed to massive levels of pollution as a form of inoculation I am just remarking on how it is peculiar that in this day and age when the environment is 1000s of times cleaner than it was then the prevalence of illnesses such as asthma seems far higher. Is there perhaps such a thing as a problem with the environment being too clean?

p.s. Astronuc you'd have got on well with my grandmother she had 3 kidneys

 

[turbo]

I hasten to add I am not suggesting everybody be exposed to massive levels of pollution as a form of inoculation I am just remarking on how it is peculiar that in this day and age when the environment is 1000s of times cleaner than it was then the prevalence of illnesses such as asthma seems far higher. Is there perhaps such a thing as a problem with the environment being too clean?

p.s. Astronuc you'd have got on well with my grandmother she had 3 kidneys

Our total general exposures to pollutants may be lower (that is definitely NOT the case in Maine, since we are being inundated with heavy metals and ozone from mid-west power plants) but our exposures in micro-climates (home, work, school, public buildings, stores, etc) are increasing daily. People complain about the incidence of Asthma, ADD, etc rising in our younger population, but they don't give a crap about reducing the exposures of these vulnerable people to the air-borne chemicals that may be causing them.

 

[Astronuc]

I've been exposed to a variety of so-called hazardous chemicals (toluenes, xylenes, methyl chlorides, gasolines, . . . .) and radiation (much more than the average person), yet I show no deleterious effects. On the other hand, my youngest brother developed an aggresive leukemia at 33 and died in less than a year, and he probably had less exposure than me, at least to radiation.

Populations in urban areas, particulary near freeways, which have a lot of truck traffic, have a higher indicence of respiratory illness.


Some people like George Burns can smoke all their adult lives, and live to a ripe old age, but others will develop lung cancer within a decade or two.


Over the holidays last week, one of my nieces has family members do a taste test. Apparently the ability to taste certain chemical compounds is genetic. I couldn't taste any of three chemicals (my family thinks my taste buds have been destroyed by my consumption of hot sauces). My kids said one of the compounds tasted like earwax - but I couldn't taste it. So possibly people have different predispositions or sensitivities.

 

[turbo]

Well, I can't be killed by poison mushrooms or any other alkaloids. Is that a bright spot? My sensitivity to the taste of alkaloids is so highly developed that I experience gut-wrenching nausea at the taste.

 

[Evo]

Different people have different sensitivities to taste, this is a good brief overview http://www.ific.org/foodinsight/1999/ja/tastefi499.cfm

There are people that think cilantro tastes like soap. I can see how they could be confused if you really stop and think about the flavor of cilantro. I happen to like it.

I know people that won't eat certain foods because of how they feel in their mouth. Then there are people that won't eat certain foods because they were told they wouldn't like it, but have never really even tried it. These people really frustrate me. I will at least try something before passing judgement on it.

A lot has to do with culture. Think about how many foods are considered delicacies in other cultures that would make the average American puke.

 

[turbo]

As a child, I have helped make and/or eaten foods that many of today's US citizens would call repulsive. Killing pigs and saving the blood and large and small intestines and scraps so that we could have sausages throughout the winter was a given. It had to be done, and we had all invested so much (scraps, peelings, breads, etc) into these pigs that we needed to get everything back. Not just the meat, but salted fat (salt pork) and the scraps, like the brains, organ meat, etc. Getting ordered around by a couple of French-Canadian great aunts for a weekend in such slaughtering get-togethers will clear your mind very quickly.

 

[Art]

As a child, I have helped make and/or eaten foods that many of today's US citizens would call repulsive. Killing pigs and saving the blood and large and small intestines and scraps so that we could have sausages throughout the winter was a given. It had to be done, and we had all invested so much (scraps, peelings, breads, etc) into these pigs that we needed to get everything back. Not just the meat, but salted fat (salt pork) and the scraps, like the brains, organ meat, etc. Getting ordered around by a couple of French-Canadian great aunts for a weekend in such slaughtering get-togethers will clear your mind very quickly.

That reminds me of a friend of mine from years ago. He worked as a butcher but after a few years very suddenly developed an allergy to raw meat. When he handled it his hands looked like pieces of raw meat themselves Eventually he had no choice but to give up that line of work.

 

[johndrake]

I'm new, surley not unique.
Bleach, pinesol, etc get me going with headaches.
But when I'm around certain friends, they "send me".
Lately, even ignoring the scents, I react like the incredible huk!
You won't like me when......
So I get serious personality changes.
Even if I don't seem to get the scent right away, within a half hour, STAND BACK!
Anyone else affected that way?
Sure will take suggestions.
My friends would appreciate it too! (let alone my wifie)
John

 

[turbo]

My wife can sense the mood-changes in me right away. And yes, I can get very frustrated, dopey-feeling, and angry. I can suppress angry, but end up being a bit curt and withdrawn at best.

 

[johndrake]

That is sooooo true!
They say that smells go directly to the brain.
Unfortunatly, I must go out tonight, and be among "smellies"
I ordered a mask from and it does help, amid jeerinng.
I ask, I don't know how my wife puts up with "the hulk" alias Bill Bixby at times.
Someone suggested liver detox, since the chemicals can bulk up in that organ.
No magic bullet, I suppose.

 

[johndrake]

Dryer sheets, brute, and I was watching NBC which had Dr Nancy Sneiderman on today,
talking about "3rd hand smoke. which leaves chemicals in the air and absorbed in carpet,
clothing, and everything around which can absorb the smoke. WHY DON'T THEY MENTION THE 3rd HAND CHEMICAL DEPOSITS ZFZROM ZFRAGRENCES?

 

[wolram]

This may be a con or crack pot, but is it worth a look Turbo?

http://www.thiscureworks.com/allergies/index.html?gclid=CNHKz9rU95cCFQu-GgodkVhxDw#read

 

[turbo]

Thanks for the link, Woolie, but for the record, I have been seen and treated by the most respected chemical-injury doctor in New England (he now teaches at Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center and his printed-out CV is an inch thick.) I think I'll pass on buying the e-book.

 

[johndrake]

The only way to win out is to infect all who aren't NORMAL like we are?