Maxwell's Equations from EM field tensor

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving Maxwell's equations from the electromagnetic field tensor, specifically focusing on the equation involving the partial derivatives of the field tensor. Participants are exploring the implications of the equation and its structure within the context of electromagnetic theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Problem interpretation, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are questioning whether the equation represents a single equation or a set of equations due to the lack of repeated indices. There is also discussion on the origins of the equation and whether it can be derived from simpler principles. Additionally, participants are considering the implications of permutations of indices and how they affect the number of independent equations.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided clarifications regarding the nature of the equation and the implications of the summation convention. There is an ongoing exploration of how to approach deriving Maxwell's equations from the given formula, with some guidance offered on focusing on distinct indices and eliminating redundancies.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the derivation process and the complexity of the equations involved. There is a mention of the desire to understand the historical context of the development of these theories, indicating a broader interest in the foundational aspects of electromagnetic theory.

Amentia
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Hello,

I have derived two Maxwell's equations from the electromagnetic field tensor but I have a problem understanding the second formula, which is:

\partial_{\lambda} F_{\mu\nu} + \partial_{\mu} F_{\nu\lambda}+\partial_{\nu} F_{\lambda\mu} =0

I have a few questions to help me start:
1) Is the summation convention used which means it is a single equation, or is it a set of equations?
2) Where does this formula come from? Can we derive it from something simple?
3) How should I start to get the Maxwell's equation? For my other calculation: \partial_{\mu}F^{\mu\nu}=J^{\nu} it was clear to me that there was a summation and 4 equations but here I don't know if it is 1, 2, ..., 20 equations?

I have started to replace all the indices by all the possible values but it looks like horrible and I assume there must be some simple method. Since I will never have any correction elsewhere, I hope you can help me there to do that properly.

Thank you!
 
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Amentia said:
Hello,

I have derived two Maxwell's equations from the electromagnetic field tensor but I have a problem understanding the second formula, which is:

\partial_{\lambda} F_{\mu\nu} + \partial_{\mu} F_{\nu\lambda}+\partial_{\nu} F_{\lambda\mu} =0

I have a few questions to help me start:
1) Is the summation convention used which means it is a single equation, or is it a set of equations?
Since none of the indices are repeated in any term, there is no Einstein summation going on here. What you have is a set of equations, one equation for each choice of ##\mu, \nu, \lambda##. That seems like a lot of equations! However, you should be able to show that no information results when any two of the indices take on the same value. (You just get 0 = 0.) Also, you should be able to see that permuting the indices does not give a different equation. (##\mu = 1, \nu = 2, \lambda = 3## gives the same equation as ##\mu = 2, \nu = 3, \lambda = 1##, say.) So, the number of independent equations is actually fairly small.
2) Where does this formula come from? Can we derive it from something simple?
I'm not sure how to answer this. If you already know Maxwell's equations in the usual form, then you can validate this formula by carrying out your exercise. Or, you could take this formula as an expression of a law of Nature which is just postulated.
3) How should I start to get the Maxwell's equation?

I have started to replace all the indices by all the possible values but it looks like horrible.
It's not that bad. After showing that you only need to consider cases where the three indices are different and that permutations of the indices give the same result, there are not that many possible values to look at.
 
TSny said:
Since none of the indices are repeated in any term, there is no Einstein summation going on here. What you have is a set of equations, one equation for each choice of ##\mu, \nu, \lambda##. That seems like a lot of equations! However, you should be able to show that no information results when any two of the indices take on the same value. (You just get 0 = 0.) Also, you should be able to see that permuting the indices does not give a different equation. (##\mu = 1, \nu = 2, \lambda = 3## gives the same equation as ##\mu = 2, \nu = 3, \lambda = 1##, say.) So, the number of independent equations is actually fairly small.

It's not that bad. After showing that you only need to consider cases where the three indices are different and that permutations of the indices give the same result, there are not that many possible values to look at.

Thank you, I was not sure about the convention, if the indices had to be repeated on each term or only several times in the equation. It makes more sense to me that it is actually a set of equations since I have to find two equations with this... And I have seen that some equations are 0=0 but I was getting lost with the permutations giving me several identical equations. I will try to do that carefully and eliminate the redundancies.

TSny said:
I'm not sure how to answer this. If you already know Maxwell's equations in the usual form, then you can validate this formula by carrying out your exercise. Or, you could take this formula as an expression of a law of Nature which is just postulated.

Of course, but what I ask is: imagine I am asked to find an equation that unifies two Maxwell's equations without knowing it. Is that doable in a few lines? I like to try thinking like the first physicists who developped a theory to understand better the topic.
 
Amentia said:
what I ask is: imagine I am asked to find an equation that unifies two Maxwell's equations without knowing it. Is that doable in a few lines? I like to try thinking like the first physicists who developped a theory to understand better the topic.
I'm afraid I'm not good with this type of question. (My fault, not yours!)
 
Ok no problem, it is more a side question, the main question was about the method for deriving the equations.
 

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