Measuring Oxygen Partial Pressure with an MFC: Flow vs. Pressure?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around measuring oxygen partial pressure and the potential use of a mass flow controller (MFC) for this purpose. Participants explore the relationship between flow rates (measured in sccm) and pressure (measured in Pa), considering both theoretical and practical implications in various applications, particularly in vacuum systems and thin film processes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the feasibility of using an MFC to control oxygen partial pressure and seek to understand the relationship between flow and pressure.
  • One participant suggests that the percentage of O2 in air could be calculated by measuring air's density, proposing that an MFC could assist in this measurement.
  • Another participant raises concerns about the reliability of MFCs due to hysteresis, indicating that the flow set on an MFC may not yield a constant partial pressure, especially in reactive gas environments.
  • A participant mentions the need for a residual gas analyzer (RGA) in conjunction with a partial pressure monitor to achieve real-time adjustments to maintain desired partial pressure levels.
  • One participant shares a specific conversion factor they encountered, stating that 1 sccm is approximately equal to 1.69 Pa, and seeks confirmation from others.
  • A participant reflects on their past experiments, suggesting that while MFCs can be used without active partial pressure control, the use of RGAs may be significant for applications like thin film deposition where gas composition affects microstructure.
  • Another participant emphasizes that partial pressure cannot be directly controlled by MFCs, noting that pressure will vary within the chamber.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effectiveness of MFCs for controlling oxygen partial pressure, with some advocating for their use while others caution against their limitations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to measure and control oxygen partial pressure accurately.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations noted regarding the assumptions made about the relationship between flow and pressure, as well as the dependence on specific experimental setups and conditions. The discussion also highlights the potential need for additional tools like RGAs for effective control.

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How is oxygen partial pressure measured? Can a mass flow controller (MFC) be used to control it? If so, what is the relationship between flow [sccm] and pressure [Pa]?

Thanks!
 
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thiago_j said:
How is oxygen partial pressure measured? Can a mass flow controller (MFC) be used to control it? If so, what is the relationship between flow [sccm] and pressure [Pa]?

Thanks!

In principle, the percentage of O2 in air can be calculated by measuring air's density. To measure the density of air, a MFC can be used.
 
I've read that MFC's are not the best option because of hysteresis. If you set it to a particular flow (sccm), the partial pressure is not going to be constant. In other words, a vacuum chamber with reactive gases like oxygen needs a partial pressure sensor (also known as a "residual gas analyzer" or RGA) in combination with a partial pressure monitor for that RGA (to adjust the flow in real-time and match the desired partial pressure). My idea may be an overkill, though.
 
Hellow Thiago
Did you manage to get the relationship you asked? Can you share with me!
Thanks


thiago_j said:
How is oxygen partial pressure measured? Can a mass flow controller (MFC) be used to control it? If so, what is the relationship between flow [sccm] and pressure [Pa]?

Thanks!
 
thiago_j said:
How is oxygen partial pressure measured? Can a mass flow controller (MFC) be used to control it? If so, what is the relationship between flow [sccm] and pressure [Pa]?

Thanks!

I met one doc saying 1sccm =1.69Pa;
Tell me what the case with you?
 
Note: this thread is almost two years old.
 
Hi manyoolo,

The short answer is: I would advise you to do literature research and run tests in your system to get the an accurate answer. Here is what I think:

The experiments I've done back in 2009 led me to use MFC's and no active form of partial pressure control to minimize cost. I believe you can use an RGA (along with auxiliary required tool control systems) to obtain live partial-pressure data and actively control the oxygen partial pressure, and that is something that has significance if you are working with thin films; the micro structure is dependent on the surrounding gases.

I wanted to improve a thin film sputtering process with RGA active controls and do cross-sectional TEM analysis, but instead I simply ran experiments with a cheap MFC and evaluated the thin film sheet resistance, which was the main criterion for my application. Depending on what you are doing, you may be able to get away with coarse controls.

I hope this helps.

Final note: partial pressure cannot be directly controlled by MFC; the pressure will vary in your chamber.
 

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