Medium Voltage Motors Phase Rotation Test

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the feasibility and methods for checking the phase rotation sequence of Medium Voltage Motors (up to 6 kV). Participants explore various testing instruments and techniques, including the implications of testing motors in parallel and the necessity of mechanical movement during testing.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether a single instrument can determine the phase rotation sequence of a Medium Voltage Motor, noting that the direction of rotation is dependent on the perspective of the motor shaft.
  • One participant suggests that applying low voltage AC to one phase might allow for inferring a sequence from the induced voltages in other phases, but this method may require more than three phases and cannot determine the direction of rotation.
  • Concerns are raised about the safety and practicality of testing Medium Voltage Motors, especially when they are connected in parallel, with some suggesting that isolation of motors is necessary for accurate testing.
  • Several participants mention the challenges of testing without decoupling the motor from its load and the difficulties of manually turning the shaft of large motors.
  • There is a reference to a portable instrument by Megger designed for low voltage testing, but uncertainty remains about its applicability for Medium Voltage Motors.
  • One participant discusses the "bump" method used by electricians to check rotation before coupling the shaft, emphasizing its practicality for smaller motors.
  • Another participant mentions the potential risks of connecting test instruments to live Medium Voltage systems and suggests consulting motor manufacturers for guidance.
  • There is a discussion about the classification of "High Voltage" and its regulatory implications, with some participants expressing confusion over terminology.
  • An analogy is provided using an ohmmeter to demonstrate how rotation can induce a small current, but doubts are raised about the practicality of applying this method to large motors.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the methods and safety of testing phase rotation in Medium Voltage Motors, with no consensus reached on the best approach or the feasibility of using specific instruments in this context.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific testing conditions, the need for isolation when testing motors in parallel, and the unresolved safety concerns regarding live Medium Voltage testing.

Royherd27
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Is it possible to check the phase rotation sequence of a Medium Voltage Motor (Up to 6 kV) with one instrument?

Does the shaft need to be moving while it is being tested?

If instead of one, there are two motors electrically connected in parallel, with a common source feeder. will it be possible to test them from the source side before it is separated to each motor?
 
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Royherd27 said:
Is it possible to check the phase rotation sequence of a Medium Voltage Motor (Up to 6 kV) with one instrument?
I think not. Fundamentally the phase rotation direction is dependent on which end of the motor shaft you look at. No single instrument can know that.

If you apply low voltage AC to one phase, you may be able to infer a sequence from the sign and magnitude of the voltage induced in other phases. You may need more than three phases to apply that method. As above it cannot give you direction of rotation, only a relative sequence.

I see no way of separating the sequence of two motors in parallel without isolating one at the time.
 
I do not know of a MV phase rotation test, since this typically takes 3 connections - would be very dangerious.

You want to test the rotation before you disconnect them? Or looking to confirm the reconnect is correct after service?

Often with motors the best test is to mechanically de-couple the load - then energize the motor and check rotation - for example if a motor is being installed or returned to duty after service..
 
Thanks Baluncore, and Windadct for your comments.
Megger has a portable portable instrument for low voltage
http://www.megger.com/us/products/ProductDetails.php?ID=1971&Description

However I am still not sure if it might be used for Medium Voltage.
Good thing you don't need to energize the motor to verify what rotation it has.


The big challenge thta I have Windadct is thta I can't d ecouple the motor...

Thanks again.

Regards
 
You're speaking of a test on the motor before making electrical connection to its leads ?

I've watched handheld meters like this on small motors.
http://www.fluke.com/fluke/auen/electrical-testers/Electrical-Testers/Fluke-9062.htm?PID=56153

9062_main.jpg


You have to turn the shaft a little by hand. I'm not sure how you'd do that on a several thousand horsepower motor.

Our electricians always 'bumped' for rotation before coupling the shaft.
 
Megger States:

"The Motor and Phase Rotation Tester permits the electrical contractor or industrial maintenance electrician to permanently connect and tape the terminals of the motor being installed, without having to first energize the motor by a temporary hookup from a power source, if available, to determine motor rotation. Therefore, the test set eliminates the need for temporary connections that can be time consuming, costly and quite hazardous, particularly where many large, high-voltage motors are involved".

Can it be done in Medium Voltage?
Parallel?
 
I do not know what megger means by "High Voltage" - they should know better... haha

It is the MV issue that is the problem, connecting any test instrument to live MV is just dangerous. You may also be able to touch base with the motor manufacturer - they may have a "trick" - or can guide you in a way to visually confirm the lead to winding sequence. The bump method is the only thing that comes to mind for V > 600VAC.

If they are induction motors - they will be difficult to get a reading on without being energized, as well as turning them mechanically enough - etc.

There are also companies that specialize in testing / commissioning that may be of assistance, and properly trained to work on the voltage levels and have the equipment- etc.
 
“High Voltage” is a regulation classification. Anything below 50V is deemed “Low Voltage” and has relaxed wiring rules.
 
Place an analog ohmmeter across the winding of an induction motor , like say your electric fan. Give the shaft a turn and watch the needle briefly deflect.

The DC current from the ohmmeter is making a small magnetic field in the motor. When you rotate the shaft rotor current flows and induces small counter-emf in the windings, hence the small dip of the meter needle .


Handheld phase checkers like that Fluke and Megger use that effect to figure out phase sequence on a 3 phase motor.
I never saw one used on a really big motor though, probably because it'd be impractical to turn the shaft by hand. But i'd bet somebody sells a gizmmo for making that check.
 

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