Mersenne Primes: Identifying & Eliminating Non-Prime Numbers

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Mersenne numbers, specifically the identification and elimination of non-prime Mersenne numbers generated by the formula x = 2^n - 1. Participants explore the use of sieves to filter out non-prime candidates and examine the conditions under which Mersenne numbers can be prime.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that a sieve can be used to eliminate many non-prime Mersenne numbers, noting that even values of n greater than 2 are non-prime and divisible by 3.
  • Another participant points out that for n = 3, every third number larger than 3 is divisible by 7, allowing for further elimination.
  • Further claims are made regarding the divisibility of Mersenne numbers by primes corresponding to their indices, with specific examples provided for n = 5 and n = 7.
  • One participant raises a question about whether this method of elimination can continue indefinitely.
  • A different participant references a theorem stating that if 2^n - 1 is prime, then n must be prime, but notes that this does not guarantee that all primes n yield a prime Mersenne number.
  • Another participant introduces a corollary from a theorem which states that certain forms of numbers are composite under specific conditions, but acknowledges that this does not assist in sieving Mersenne primes.
  • One participant challenges the assertion that all primes n yield a prime Mersenne number by citing the case of n = 11, where 2^11 - 1 is not prime.
  • Another participant discusses the factorization of expressions of the form x^(2*n) - 1, suggesting a pattern in the factors that could relate to Mersenne numbers.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effectiveness of sieving methods for identifying non-prime Mersenne numbers. There is no consensus on whether the proposed methods can be applied indefinitely or on the implications of theorems regarding the primality of Mersenne numbers.

Contextual Notes

Some claims rely on specific mathematical theorems and corollaries that may have limitations or require further clarification. The discussion includes assumptions about the nature of Mersenne numbers and their indices that are not universally accepted.

arydberg
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Following is a list of 39 Mersenne numbers. Some are prime and some are not. These are generated with x =( 2^n) -1. Many of the largest primes known are Mersenne primes.

I would like to point out that a sieve may be used to block out many non prime Mersenne numbers.

For example for n = 2 x = 3 but on closer inspection every even value of n other than n = 2 is non prime furthermore they are all divisible by 3, Thus we can cross out n=4, n=6, … up to n=38.

Also starting at n=3 and x = 7 we find that every third number larger than 3 is divisible by 7 so we could cross out n = 6, n=9, n=12 … up to n = 39.

Now let's move to n=5 or x = 31. now we can cross out every fifth number larger than n=5 as they are all divisible by 31

if we move to n=7 and x = 127 we find that every 7th number larger than 7 is divisible by 127 and can be crossed out.

11 should be crossed off as 2047 is not prime

My question is does this go on forever and can we use it to delete many Mersenne numbers as non primes.



The next prime is 11
n 2^n - 1
n = 1 x = 1
n = 2 x = 3
n = 3 x = 7
n = 4 x = 15
n = 5 x = 31
n = 6 x = 63
n = 7 x = 127
n = 8 x = 255
n = 9 x = 511
n = 10 x = 1023
n = 11 x = 2047
n = 12 x = 4095
n = 13 x = 8191
n = 14 x = 16383
n = 15 x = 32767
n = 16 x = 65535
n = 17 x = 131071
n = 18 x = 262143
n = 19 x = 524287
n = 20 x = 1048575
n = 21 x = 2097151
n = 22 x = 4194303
n = 23 x = 8388607
n = 24 x = 16777215
n = 25 x = 33554431
n = 26 x = 67108863
n = 27 x = 134217727
n = 28 x = 268435455
n = 29 x = 536870911
n = 30 x = 1073741823
n = 31 x = 2147483647
n = 32 x = 4294967295
n = 33 x = 8589934591
n = 34 x = 17179869183
n = 35 x = 34359738367
n = 36 x = 68719476735
n = 37 x = 137438953471
n = 38 x = 274877906943
n = 39 x = 549755813887
 
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As a consequence of Theorem 18 from Hardy-Wright, we have the following

Corollary: For two natural numbers 1 < a and b: a{^b} - 1 is composite if a > 2 (because (a - 1) divides a^{b} - 1);
or in the case a = 2: if b = s * t (because 2^{s} - 1 divides 2^{s*t} - 1
 
Last edited:
yes but consider the number 11 which is a prime while 2^11 -1 is not a prime.
 
yes but this does not help
 
I think, my Corollary helps to delete all 2{^b} - 1 with a composite b; but unfortunately, there is no help for sieving the Mersenne primes:

Theorem 18 by HW says (in short): 'If 2{^b} - 1 is a prime, then b is a prime'; and the 'other way round' is not valid
 
Last edited:
To show that (X^(2*n) ) - 1 has a factor of x-1 for any n. Consider x^2 - 1 = (x-1) * (x+1 )

so if x^2 -1 is a factor of a function then x-1 is a factor.

Consider x^4 - 1 = ( x^2 -1 ) * ( x^2 + 1 )

so x-1 is a factor of x^4 -1

consider x^6 - 1 = (x^2 -1 ) * ( x^4 + x^2 + 1 )

so x-1 is a factor of x^6 -1

consider x^8-1 = ( x^2 -1 ) * ( x^6 + x^ 4 + x^ 2 + 1 )

so x-1 is a factor of x^8 -1
etc

So it seems to me…

x^(2*n) - 1 = (x^2 -1 ) * ( x^(2*(n-1)) + x^(2 * (n-2)) + ……. + 1 )
 

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