Is the Hypatia Stone Meteorite Older than Earth?

In summary, the Hypatia Stone meteorite, discovered in Egypt in 1996, has been found to contain materials that are older than the Earth itself. This has raised questions about its origin and has led scientists to believe that it could have originated from outside our solar system.
  • #1
jim mcnamara
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https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/01/180109112437.htm

The Hypatia Stone is a small meteorite from SW Egypt. Petrographic and chemical analysis by a group of researchers mostly from University of Johannesburg found element abundances and other unique chemical anomalies in the meteorite. They suggest that the object originated in the interstellar dust cloud, likely before the formation of Earth.

Some unique chemicals found in the specimen have never been seen in any other solar system object for which we have data. This may imply that our model of the solar system prior to planetary formation needs consideration.

Georgy A. Belyanin, Jan D. Kramers, Marco A.G. Andreoli, Francesco
Greco, Arnold Gucsik, Tebogo V. Makhubela, Wojciech J. Przybylowicz,
Michael Wiedenbeck. Petrography of the carbonaceous, diamond-bearing
stone “Hypatia” from southwest Egypt: A contribution to the debate on
its origin. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta, 2018; 223: 462 DOI:10.1016/j.gca.2017.12.020
 
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  • #2
wow

pretty awesome :smile:
 
  • #3
jim mcnamara said:
This may imply that our model of the solar system prior to planetary formation needs consideration.

I'm curious. What does it potentially suggest that might have implications for a model of the solar system?
 
  • #4
Our current model assumes different "starting ingredients" for the Solar System - specifically the abundance of elements in dust and small objects - the sample does not match up at all. So it may not be explainable using the current assumptions about "starting ingredients". Read the Science mag article for a detailed explanation of why. And note the paper title implies an ongoing discussion about the ultimate origins of the Hypatia stone.
 
  • #5
jim mcnamara said:
Our current model assumes different "starting ingredients" for the Solar System - specifically the abundance of elements in dust and small objects - the sample does not match up at all. So it may not be explainable using the current assumptions about "starting ingredients". Read the Science mag article for a detailed explanation of why. And note the paper title implies an ongoing discussion about the ultimate origins of the Hypatia stone.
Thanks Jim! Thought provoking article.
 
  • #6
So much for "cosmic abundances."
 
  • #7
There isn't anything regarding dating using isotopes. Is that not possible with this sort of sample?
 
  • #8
@pinball1970 - I do not know, but I assume other researchers have done something to establish age. This is part of a discussion, my quick search did not find much. Try an extended search in Google Scholar.
 
  • #9
I got 20+ hits on google scholar for the search: hypatia stone meteorite - the default editor munged this, so I manually cleaned it up ... sort of.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1945-5100.2009.tb00788.x/full
Cosmogenic nuclides

I Leya, https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=DkqU0V4AAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra J Masarik
- Meteoritics & Planetary Science, 2009 - Wiley Online Library

Teil A 21: 414–426 … 1990. Chemical analyses of meteorites: A compilation of stony
and iron meteorite analyses. Meteoritics 25: 323–337 …

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=11967354693768954104&as_sdt=5,32&sciodt=0,32&hl=en Cited by 105

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=related:-MAzL7CVFKYJ:scholar.google.com/&hl=en&as_sdt=0,32 Related articles

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=11967354693768954104&hl=en&as_sdt=0,32 All 6 versions[

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0016703781900454 The Acapulco meteorite: chemistry, mineralogy and irradiation effects[
H Palme, L Schultz, B Spettel, HW Weber… - … et Cosmochimica Acta, 1981 - Elsevier
… Differences to ordinary chon- 1.9 kg stone was found … ii..r avoid any confusion, we adopted here
the name under reduced mmera1 chemistry compared with ordinary which the meteorite was
reported … meteorites also have oxygen isotope compositions 727 728 H. PALME et al …

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=18036667521183168297&as_sdt=5,32&sciodt=0,32&hl=en Cited by 86 https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=related:KbfyU4wdT_oJ:scholar.google.com/&hl=en&as_sdt=0,32 Related articles https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=18036667521183168297&hl=en&as_sdt=0,32 All 6 versions[

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Vladimir_Luzin/publication/271980513_Non-Destructive_Residual_Stress_Investigations_of_Natural_Polycrystalline_Diamonds/links/54dd95cd0cf25b09b9140f85.pdf [PDF] researchgate.net[

https://www.scientific.net/AMR.996.969 Non-destructive residual stress investigations of natural polycrystalline diamonds[
AM Venter, V Luzin, MAG Andreoli… - Advanced Materials …, 2014 - Trans Tech Publ
… The study reveals that the stones are primarily composed of cubic diamond with varying amounts
of impurities that emanate from their excessive porosities and entrapped … Shock-metamorphism
in meteorite impact processes [Ultra HT … [6] proposing that the Hypatia stone was a …
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=12195958900258441958&as_sdt=5,32&sciodt=0,32&hl=en Cited by 1 https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=related:5goruQDAQKkJ:scholar.google.com/&hl=en&as_sdt=0,32 Related articles https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=12195958900258441958&hl=en&as_sdt=0,32 All 4 versions[

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jolanta_Mesjasz-Przybytowicz/publication/282769579_PIXE_micro-mapping_of_minor_elements_in_Hypatia_a_diamond_bearing_carbonaceous_stone_from_the_Libyan_Desert_Glass_area_Egypt_Inheritance_from_a_cold_molecular_cloud/links/5a1fb9c4aca272cbfbc31d56/PIXE-micro-mapping-of-minor-elements-in-Hypatia-a-diamond-bearing-carbonaceous-stone-from-the-Libyan-Desert-Glass-area-Egypt-Inheritance-from-a-cold-molecular-cloud.pdf [PDF] researchgate.net[

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0168583X1500837X PIXE micro-mapping of minor elements in Hypatia, a diamond bearing carbonaceous stone from the Libyan Desert Glass area, Egypt: Inheritance from a cold …[
MAG Andreoli, WJ Przybylowicz, https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=jwUQp4UAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra J Kramers[… - Nuclear Instruments and …, 2015 - Elsevier
… Matter originating from space, particularly if it represents rare meteorite samples, is ideally suited
to be studied by … of the sample broke out along one of the micro-fractures that extensively pervade
the stone [7] resulting in two separate subsamples (Hypatia//Mick Rebak …

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=15985974466506792434&as_sdt=5,32&sciodt=0,32&hl=en Cited by 1 https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=related:8h2aeBSX2d0J:scholar.google.com/&hl=en&as_sdt=0,32 Related articles https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=15985974466506792434&hl=en&as_sdt=0,32 All 4 versions[

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0016703717307962 Petrography of the carbonaceous, diamond-bearing stone “Hypatia” from southwest Egypt: A contribution to the debate on its origin[

https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=wfxy_x8AAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra GA Belyanin[, https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=jwUQp4UAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra JD Kramers[, MAG Andreoli… - … et Cosmochimica Acta, 2017 - Elsevier
… This has thus far prevented classification of Hypatia as a meteorite, as the Meteoritical Society
stipulates for … This circumstance has however not brought research on Hypatia to a halt. Within
its carbonaceous matrix, the stone contains a variety of mineral inclusions (Kramers et al …
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1510.06594 [PDF] arxiv.org
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012821X15006482 A comprehensive study of noble gases and nitrogen in “Hypatia”, a diamond-rich pebble from SW Egypt[
https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=tIPYUxoAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra

G Avice, https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=Qo26UaMAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra MMM Meier[, B Marty, R Wieler… - Earth and Planetary …, 2015 - Elsevier
… These authors performed an exploratory analytical study on Hypatia, including XRD, SEM, Raman
spectroscopy, TEM … of C and noble gas isotopes motivated by the fact that this stone was found …
Noble gas isotope analysis is central to the study of meteorites because these rocks …
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=4352323811968745001&as_sdt=5,32&sciodt=0,32&hl=en Cited by 3 https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=related:Kf7eh3KPZjwJ:scholar.google.com/&hl=en&as_sdt=0,32 Related articles https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=4352323811968745001&hl=en&as_sdt=0,32 All 16 versions[
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19780021065.pdf [PDF] nasa.gov
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=19780021065 Dynamical evidence regarding the
relationship between asteroids and meteorites
GW Wetherill - 1978 - ntrs.nasa.gov
… The principal problem is a quantitative one, as best estimates of the meteorite yield 9 on Earth
from this … it is not clear if a major or only a minor part of the Earth's meteorites are produced … Aglaja
2.88 .14 5 471 Papagena 2.89 .24 15 386 Siegena 2.90 .17 20 238 Hypatia 2.91 .09 …

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=17113371593081638438&as_sdt=5,32&sciodt=0,32&hl=en Cited by 22 https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=related:Jk7kGsvofu0J:scholar.google.com/&hl=en&as_sdt=0,32 Related articles https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=17113371593081638438&hl=en&as_sdt=0,32 All 5 versions[

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012821X13004998 Unique chemistry of a diamond-bearing pebble from the Libyan Desert Glass strewnfield, SW Egypt: Evidence for a shocked comet fragment[

https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=jwUQp4UAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra JD Kramers[, MAG Andreoli, M Atanasova… - Earth and Planetary …, 2013 - Elsevier
… On the other hand, Hypatia could be connected to the Libyan Desert Glass formation. In this
context the stone could be a piece of coal or carbonaceous shale in the target area … phase, as
proposed by Barakat (see above), or might be a fragment of a meteorite which impacted …

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=8053782566101940264&as_sdt=5,32&sciodt=0,32&hl=en Cited by 12 https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=related:KHi9tpLIxG8J:scholar.google.com/&hl=en&as_sdt=0,32 Related articles https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=8053782566101940264&hl=en&as_sdt=0,32 All 5 versions[

http://blog.seniorennet.be/peter2011/archief.php?catID=12891 seniorennet.be

http://blog.seniorennet.be/peter2011/archief.php?catID=12891 Here's your chance to take a 360-degree tour of the Milky Way[
M Murphy - blog.seniorennet.be
… 20 percent of a meteorite's original mass to be present to officially declare it to be a meteorite …
The Earth and other rocky planets are full of silicates, and so are stony meteorites. If the matrix
of the Hypatia stone formed from the solar nebula, that nebula couldn't have been totally …

http://boris.unibe.ch/81643/8/SSR-Bockelee_revised_29Apr.pdf [PDF] unibe.ch

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11214-015-0156-9 Cometary isotopic measurements[
D Bockelée-Morvan, U Calmonte, S Charnley… - Space science …, 2015 - Springer
… mineralogical and isotopic analyses at different scales down to the nanometer permit direct
comparison with asteroidal material delivered by meteorites … Recently, a piece of carbon-rich
material found in Egypt and nicknamed Hypatia has been interpreted as originating from a …

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=2706090135816363938&as_sdt=5,32&sciodt=0,32&hl=en Cited by 31

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=related:ot-FG6T2jSUJ:scholar.google.com/&hl=en&as_sdt=0,32 Related articles

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=2706090135816363938&hl=en&as_sdt=0,32 All 14 versions[
 
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  • #10
Or maybe we got the Solar System's formation right, but Hypatia is actually the little sister of ʻOumuamua that had nothing to do with our system before the fall.
 
  • #11
@Jim Thanks I will check these out
 
  • #12
What about the possibility that meteorite came from another star system? If it seems to be older than Earth what evidence is there it is from OUR early solar system? I would think that question should be answered before making sweeping statements about how we mis-read the dust cloud that became our system.
How would they answer that question?
 
  • #13
It certainly could be possible since a recent observation was made of a much larger object passing through the solar system,
which without much doubt could only have had an extrasolar origin,
 

1. How do we know that a meteorite is older than the Earth?

Scientists use radiometric dating techniques to determine the age of a meteorite. This involves measuring the amount of radioactive elements in the meteorite and calculating how long it would have taken for them to decay to their current levels. The age of the Earth is also determined using the same method, and meteorites have been found to be older than the Earth's estimated age of 4.54 billion years.

2. Where do meteorites come from?

Meteorites come from various sources, including asteroids, comets, and other planets or moons in our solar system. Most meteorites that have been found on Earth are believed to originate from the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter.

3. Are all meteorites older than the Earth?

No, not all meteorites are older than the Earth. Some meteorites are believed to have formed at the same time as the Earth, while others may be younger. However, most meteorites that have been found and studied so far are older than the Earth.

4. How do meteorites help us learn about the early solar system?

Meteorites are like time capsules from the early solar system, containing materials that have remained relatively unchanged since the formation of our solar system. By studying the composition and age of meteorites, scientists can learn about the conditions and processes that were present during the early stages of our solar system's formation.

5. Have we found any meteorites that are older than the Earth?

Yes, scientists have found meteorites that are believed to be over 4.5 billion years old, which is older than the estimated age of the Earth. These meteorites are called "chondrites" and are composed of primitive materials that have not undergone much alteration since their formation. They provide valuable insights into the early history of our solar system.

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