Misapplication of Bernouilli's principle

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the application and interpretation of Bernoulli's principle, particularly in the context of examples used in educational materials, such as the lifting of a tarpaulin on a moving truck and the lift generated by airplane wings. Participants explore the implications of relative motion between air and objects, the role of turbulence, and the conditions under which Bernoulli's principle is applicable.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that the illustration of Bernoulli's principle using a moving truck with a tarpaulin is a misconception, as the air is not moving relative to the truck.
  • Others suggest that measuring total pressure at the truck bed would yield similar results whether the truck or the air is considered to be moving.
  • There is a contention regarding the role of turbulence in lift generation for airplane wings, with some asserting that turbulence is detrimental while others highlight its complex effects on drag.
  • Participants discuss the relative motion of air and objects, noting that it is often assumed in aerodynamics that the object is stationary while the air moves.
  • Some participants emphasize that Bernoulli's principle applies only when there is a change in the speed of the fluid, arguing that the principle does not apply to a truck moving through air without altering the air's speed.
  • There is mention of different types of drag in aerodynamics, including pressure drag and skin friction drag, and how they relate to laminar and turbulent flow.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the application of Bernoulli's principle, with no consensus reached on whether the examples used in educational contexts are valid or misleading. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of relative motion and the role of turbulence in lift generation.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the effectiveness of wind tunnel testing may vary based on its setup, and that Bernoulli's principle is contingent on the conditions of fluid motion and energy changes. There are unresolved assumptions regarding the applicability of Bernoulli's principle to real-world scenarios involving moving objects and fluids.

  • #31
I do feel that Bernouilli is not the main contribution to lift, but evidence seems to show the opposite. Nevertheless, the Bernouilli equation is based on the energy conservation principle. Are you sure that the air flowing above an below a wing must conserve total energy?
 
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  • #32
I couldn't find any reference in this thread to the Coanda effect. The Coanda effect is responsible for a wing generating lift, and is the same principle at work in the bathroom sink that causes a thin vertical stream of water to bend around an object placed nearby.

The Bernoulli effect plays no part in generating lift.


arildno said:
There exists NO physical principle that states that to joined particles at the front, the one going over the curved top, the other going beneath, has to meet again at the back.
In fact, this is FALSE.

That's right! After a typical aerofoil separates two vertically adjacent particles, the one that passes over the top of the wing meets the trailing edge before the lower particle does. This happens because the curvature of the top of the wing causes the surface layer of air to separate from the layer of air above it (the particles in the surface layer bend downwards as they follow the curved surface of the wing; particles in the layer above don't bend so much). This creates a region of lower pressure over the wing, which causes increased speed of air throughout that region, over the wing. Despite the greater distance over the wing (than under), air that moves over the wing reaches the back first. In other words, air going over the top gets moved horizontally by the passing of the wing less than the air that goes under.

The vertical component of velocity for the combined upper/lower surface layers of air is then downwards as it leaves the wing. Hence, by conservation of momentum, the wing gets lifted up.
 

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