Model rocket physics: Why doesn't the motor go through the nose cone?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the design of model rockets, specifically addressing why the motor tube does not include a retention ring to prevent the motor from exiting through the nose cone. Participants explore various aspects of model rocket construction, including the role of friction, retaining rings, and the implications of motor design on rocket stability.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the absence of a retention ring in the motor tube, suggesting that friction alone cannot hold the motor in place.
  • Another participant notes that their past experience with model rockets included retaining rings glued to the interior to prevent engine motion.
  • It is mentioned that for rockets with a body diameter matching the motor, a simple ring suffices, but without sufficient friction, motors could fall out before launch.
  • A participant speculates about the mass distribution in the rocket, questioning whether the engine block accounts for most of the total mass and how friction and rings transmit force to the rest of the rocket.
  • Another contributor recalls that in their experience, the engine rings and body were made of lightweight materials, suggesting that the motor's weight is significant compared to other components.
  • Discussion includes the design differences in larger model rockets, where motors may lack a forward stop due to the need for varying motor lengths, which are instead designed with a rear stop.
  • One participant reflects on their past experiences with metal clips used in some models, questioning their current prevalence and applicability across different rocket designs.
  • Another participant clarifies that the use of clips or rings depends on the diameter of the rocket, with different mounting systems employed for varying sizes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and design of retention mechanisms in model rockets, with some recalling specific practices from their experiences while others present alternative perspectives. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best practices for motor retention in various rocket designs.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference personal experiences and historical practices in model rocket construction, which may not reflect current standards or designs. There is also mention of varying designs based on rocket size and motor length, indicating a lack of consensus on a single approach.

LT72884
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For those who have built those small model rockets, please help me understand a very very simple physics problem that i for some reason do not fully get.
Why is it that the motor tube does not have a retention ring on it, to prevent the motor from flying out the nose cone? i know it cant be friction that holds the motor in place because the motor slides in pretty nice, but nothing to stop it from sliding further and eventually out the nose cone
Thanks
EDIT: i figured out my answer and yes, im an idiot today.... feel free to add whatever you want to this post
1678733133577.png

thanks.
 
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LT72884 said:
Why is it that the motor tube does not have a retention ring on it, to prevent the motor from flying out the nose cone?
The model rockets I built (decades ago!) all had retaining rings ("Engine Block/Ring (Internal)") glued to the interior to prevent engine motion.
Model Rocket.jpg

(from here)
 
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renormalize said:
The model rockets I built (decades ago!) all had retaining rings ("Engine Block/Ring (Internal)") glued to the interior to prevent engine motion.
View attachment 323566
(from here)
...and for rockets with a body the same diameter as the motor, it's just a simple ring. If there wasn't enough friction in the body they could fall our before launch!
 
LT72884 said:
EDIT: i figured out my answer and yes, im an idiot today.... feel free to add whatever you want to this post
If you can ask the right question, and then answer it yourself, you are not an idiot. You are an engineer considering a complex multidimensional system.
 
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LT72884 said:
. feel free to add whatever you want to this post
Am I right to assume that the engine block accounts for most of the total mass? The friction/rings only have to transmit the force to accelerate the lightweight rest of the rocket.
 
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A.T. said:
Am I right to assume that the engine block accounts for most of the total mass? The friction/rings only have to transmit the force to accelerate the lightweight rest of the rocket.
Well back in my day, the engine rings and body of a small model rocket were just sections of carboard tubing of almost negligible weight in comparison to that of the disposable rocket engine itself, the balsa wood fins & nosecone, and payload, if any.
 
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As stated above, most small model rockets use an internal ring that the front of the motor butts up against to prevent exactly this from happening.

For larger model rockets, it's much more common for this to be missing, and instead the motors are designed with a slightly larger diameter section right at the rear of the rocket motor that butts up against the rear of the motor tube. The reason for this difference is because in larger models, a common way to change motor fuel capacity (and thus power) is to change the length of the motor, so having a forward stop would be problematic and would require a variety of spacers depending on motor length. Having the stop built into the rear of the motor instead completely solves this issue.
 
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It’s been over a decade since my last experience with model rockets (as a Scout leader), but I distinctly remember metal clips. Maybe they’re on some models but not others? Or maybe not used anymore?
 
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marcusl said:
It’s been over a decade since my last experience with model rockets (as a Scout leader), but I distinctly remember metal clips. Maybe they’re on some models but not others? Or maybe not used anymore?
It just depends on the diameter of the rocket. If the diameter of the rocket is the same as the motor they are held in place with just a thrust ring and friction. If the rocket is larger they use a mounting system with a separate tube, stand-off rings and a clip.
 

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