Moments -- sign convention in beam

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the sign convention for bending moments in beams, particularly focusing on the interpretation of a 12.86 kNm moment at a specific section of a beam. Participants explore the implications of clockwise and counterclockwise moments in relation to fixed ends and the resulting bending behavior of the beam.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that a clockwise moment of 12.86 kNm at the right of span BC should be considered negative due to its position relative to the section being analyzed.
  • Others argue that the same clockwise moment contributes positively to the moment diagram when considered from the right side of the section, as it is necessary to bring the moment to zero at point C.
  • There is a discussion about the convention that clockwise moments are negative when acting on a section to the left and positive when acting on a section to the right.
  • Some participants express confusion regarding the conversion of moments when drawing the moment diagram, questioning why a clockwise moment would be treated as counterclockwise in certain contexts.
  • Participants note that fixed end moments point upward when clockwise and downward when counterclockwise in the moment diagram.
  • There is a suggestion that the fixed end moments do not cause bending; rather, it is the loading on the beam that results in bending.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the treatment of the 12.86 kNm moment, with multiple competing views on its sign and contribution to the moment diagram remaining unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of the sign convention and its dependence on the position of the moment relative to the section being analyzed, indicating that the discussion is nuanced and context-specific.

  • #31
fonseh said:
is my working of RB(5) -30.71 - 15(5)(2.5) = 0 incorrect ?
It is correct. Whenever you are summing moments about a point to find reaction forces, you can assume applied clockwise moments, and applied clockwise moments from forces, all as plus, or all as minus, and you get the same answer. I suggest however to assume clockwise moments as plus.
For moment about A , i have M(A) -RB(5) +30.71 + 15(5)(2.5) = 0 , thus , moment about A = RB(5) -30.71 - 15(5)(2.5) = 0 , RB = 43.64 up

I did in this way because for the left end of span , clockwise moment is positive ( cause the beam to bend upwards) ,
Forget about upwards or downwards in this step when determining reaction forces. Just use cw as plus and ccw as minus.
similarly , when finding moment about B , I assume anticlockwise as positive .(because anticlockwise moment causing the right span to bend upwards) Moment = M(B) -RA(5) + 30.71-15(5)(2.5) = 0 , 31.36 up

Or should I be consistent , keeping clockwise moment as positive and anticlockwise as negative or vice versa?
Once again, when determining reaction forces, keep it a simple set of rules: Consider clockwise moments, whether an applied moment couple or an applied 'force times distance moment about a point', as PLUS. And counterclockwise as MINUS.

I will try to sum up the signage rules later with a sketch, when I get a moment.
 
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  • #32
PhanthomJay said:
It is correct. Whenever you are summing moments about a point to find reaction forces, you can assume applied clockwise moments, and applied clockwise moments from forces, all as plus, or all as minus, and you get the same answer. I suggest however to assume clockwise moments as plus. Forget about upwards or downwards in this step when determining reaction forces. Just use cw as plus and ccw as minus.Once again, when determining reaction forces, keep it a simple set of rules: Consider clockwise moments, whether an applied moment couple or an applied 'force times distance moment about a point', as PLUS. And counterclockwise as MINUS.

I will try to sum up the signage rules later with a sketch, when I get a moment.
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/pinned-end-supported-span.912159/https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/moment-in-beam.912156/

Can you help me in this 2 threads ? It seems like you are the only one who is familiar with the structural engineering problem
 

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