Multivariable calculus: Length of curve

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the length of a curve defined by a vector function, specifically r(t) = over the interval 0 < t < π. Participants are exploring the necessary calculations and integrations involved in determining the length.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the derivative of the vector function and the expression for the length of the curve. There is uncertainty about applying trigonometric identities and how to proceed with the integration of the resulting expression. Some participants suggest different integration techniques, including u-substitution and integration by parts, while others question the feasibility of these methods.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with various approaches being considered. Some participants have provided guidance on potential substitutions and integration techniques, while others express confusion about the steps involved. There is no explicit consensus on the best method to proceed.

Contextual Notes

Participants are grappling with the integration of a square root function and the implications of different substitution methods. The original poster's attempts and subsequent responses indicate a lack of clarity on how to effectively simplify and integrate the expression.

Minusu
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Homework Statement


Find the length of the curve traced by the given vector function on the indicated interval.
r(t)=<t, tcost, tsint> ; 0<t<pi


Homework Equations



s= ∫||r'(t)||dt

The Attempt at a Solution



r'(t) = <1, -tsint + cost, tcost + sint>
s= ∫||r'(t)||dt

||r'(t)|| = sqrt(1^2+(-tsint+cost)^2+(tcost+sint)^2)
||r'(t)|| = sqrt(1+t^2sin^2t-2tsintcost+cos^2t+t^2cos^t+2tsintcost+sin^2t)
||r'(t)|| = sqrt(1 + t^2sin^2t+t^2cos^2t+sin^2t+cos^2t)

I'm not sure where to go from here. I was thinking of using the trig identity sin^2x+cos^2x= 1, but I don't think I can do that.
 
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Minusu said:
||r'(t)|| = sqrt(1 + t^2sin^2t+t^2cos^2t+sin^2t+cos^2t)

I'm not sure where to go from here. I was thinking of using the trig identity sin^2x+cos^2x= 1, but I don't think I can do that.
Why not?
 
I'd end up with sqrt(2+t^2), but then I don't know how to integrate that from 0 to pi. At first, I tried u-substitution, so u =2+t^2, du=2tdt, du/2=tdt, but there is no tdt outside the sqrt so that I can substitute.
 
Minusu said:
I'd end up with sqrt(2+t^2), but then I don't know how to integrate that from 0 to pi. At first, I tried u-substitution, so u =2+t^2, du=2tdt, du/2=tdt, but there is no tdt outside the sqrt so that I can substitute.
Try integration by parts.
 
:S isn't what I'm doing integration by parts? Or do you mean separate it into two integrals? I don't think you can do that with a sqrt sign
 
Minusu said:
:S isn't what I'm doing integration by parts? Or do you mean separate it into two integrals? I don't think you can do that with a sqrt sign
No, what you did before was substitution. Your integral is $$I= \int_0^\pi \sqrt{t^2 + 2}\,dt$$ Let ##u = \sqrt{t^2+ 2}## and ##dv = dt##. With one application of integration of parts, you will get a form that appears to not be any simpler: $$t \sqrt{t^2 + 2}|_0^\pi - \int_0^\pi t \frac{t}{\sqrt{t^2 + 2}}dt$$What I thought you could then do was use integ by parts again, but this only leads to the completely trivial statement ##I= I##
I'll think over it some more - maybe a hyperbolic substitution would be useful.
 
Try the substitution t = √2 tan x.
 
CAF123 said:
Try the substitution t = √2 tan x.
I think √2 sinh x works out a little more easily.
 
haruspex said:
I think √2 sinh x works out a little more easily.
Yes, I agree.
 

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