My friends suck or I am too whiny?

[cristo]

Man, I just learned what a door mat is. Never heard of that term before. I didn't known been nice could be bad. Kk, I need to start learning how to say no. One last thing, you guys sure being door mat is 100% bad? Just need one last confirmation.

Being nice is not bad, but there's a difference between being nice and being completely used. At the moment, from reading your comments in this thread, you fall into the latter bracket. I can't see how being completely used can ever not be 100% bad. You need to distance yourself from these people who only see you as "the guy who sits in the library doing their homework while they're off having fun" and start making real friends; that is, people who enjoy your company.

 

[johndude222]

Huh ok. then why do they teach you all those chivalry stuff in school when you are a kid? I meant I was taught is good to be super nice to people.

The knight in shiny armor who is always nice to his ladies is suppose to be the ultimate role model. (Fights a beast but always super gentle to his ladies whatever)

So all the stuff I learned is fake and don't work in the real world?

Also about the comment regarding zen archer, how do I know when it is time to be nice and when it is time to give them the finger?

 

[cristo]

The knight in shiny armor who is always nice to his ladies is suppose to be the ultimate role model. (Fights a beast but always super gentle to his ladies whatever)

Yes, but that knight in shining armour realizes that princesses who only talk to him when there is a dragon outside their castle are not the ones that he risks his life to save!

 

[johndude222]

Ah, that makes sense.

Thing is.. when people don't use me as a doormat sometimes, I feel pretty depressed. I feel like the reason they don't asks me for help is because I am not good at this stuff. When I am been used a door mat, I actually feel happy for the time being. Isn't that weird?

Also, there is a really smart girl on the discussion boards. I always had respect for her posts and stuff and the stuff she write is pretty good. She sometimes asks for help once in a while (most of the time she gives out help) and I usually try to be the first one to respond to her post whatever. Should I try and meet up with this girl? cause this is someone that I am really interested in. The reason I go on discussion boards is cause I am lonely and kinda want praises from other people when I help them with so and so homework question. She spend the same amount of time on the discussion boards as I do so I would assume she is in the same situation? If so, we do have a lot in common.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

The knight in shiny armor who is always nice to his ladies is suppose to be the ultimate role model. (Fights a beast but always super gentle to his ladies whatever)

So all the stuff I learned is fake and don't work in the real world?

You're talking about a mythological archetype: the man who is the ultimate paragon of virtue and is essentially a warrior-monk of perfect asceticism and character. The knight's love for his lady is a chaste love-from-afar. He plays the noble servant to his lady as he does to his liege. He might rescue the girl but he doesn't get the girl. And when he does it's a failure on his part, a corruption of purity: see Lancelot and Guinevere (that one symbolically brings about the end of the world and plunges Britain into the Dark Ages, by the way).

The knight is a role model for those whose cause is more important than their own wants and their own lives. It's not the way for someone who's going to live their own life.

Also about the comment regarding zen archer, how do I know when it is time to be nice and when it is time to give them the finger?

Cultivating the acumen and the reflexes to do this is the task of a lifetime. So I'm not very far along in it myself. But I'll give it a try:

I think it basically amounts to developing the skill of being able to anticipate what other people really need and want, and how they'll react to you, regardless of what they're literally saying or how they're acting. And also anticipating what you can get out of them and what their reaction to you doing that will be.

Another part of it is divorcing your own feelings, your pride or jealously or self-consciousness or embarrassment, from those estimations of other people. It's not that you're not supposed to have those feelings, it's that you need to prevent them from ruling your social interactions.

Be nice when someone else really needs you, not when you're internally hoping to trade being nice for reciprocal treatment. That kind of trade can happen but it needs to start with small reciprocated gestures before moving on to real selflessness. And always apologize and make sincere amends when you've wrongly given someone the finger - don't hold on to your pride.

 

[cristo]

Ah, that makes sense.

Thing is.. when people don't use me as a doormat sometimes, I feel pretty depressed. I feel like the reason they don't asks me for help is because I am not good at this stuff. When I am been used a door mat, I actually feel happy for the time being. Isn't that weird?

It's not weird to feel happy when you've helped someone, but I would venture a guess that it is your definition of "help" that is wrong. You think that by letting people walk all over you that you are doing a good deed and thus that's why you feel happy, but in reality you are not doing yourself a good deed!

As for the depression, I think you should seriously consider seeking professional help.

Also, there is a really smart girl on the discussion boards. I always had respect for her posts and stuff and the stuff she write is pretty good. She sometimes asks for help once in a while (most of the time she gives out help) and I usually try to be the first one to respond to her post whatever. Should I try and meet up with this girl? cause this is someone that I am really interested in.

No. You should go and seek help first before trying to build relationships with someone.

The reason I go on discussion boards is cause I am lonely and kinda want praises from other people when I help them with so and so homework question. She spend the same amount of time on the discussion boards as I do so I would assume she is in the same situation? If so, we do have a lot in common.

This would be a mighty assumption to make, and is more than likely to be wrong. There are many people who come on PF and help people with homework, but I doubt that many (and definitely not all) do it because they are lonely and need praise. I for one help students with their homework for many reasons, mainly because it is rewarding to see improvements in students work, and also because I think PF is a great idea, and something I would have benefited from a lot when I was younger, had it been around/had I found it. Anyway, the point of this rambling is that you should not assume that she helps out for any of the same reasons that you do.

Finally, to repeat the common theme of the post, please seek professional help!

 

[CaptainQuasar]

Also, there is a really smart girl on the discussion boards. I always had respect for her posts and stuff and the stuff she write is pretty good. She sometimes asks for help once in a while (most of the time she gives out help) and I usually try to be the first one to respond to her post whatever. Should I try and meet up with this girl? cause this is someone that I am really interested in. The reason I go on discussion boards is cause I am lonely and kinda want praises from other people when I help them with so and so homework question. She spend the same amount of time on the discussion boards as I do so I would assume she is in the same situation? If so, we do have a lot in common.

I would say just try flirting with her first. If she responds positively - and be bold when you're judging whether she's responding positively, don't second-guess yourself - then decide what to do from there.

I don't know if you're a Star Trek fan or not but there's this episode of the Next Generation (Oh God, that premiered more than twenty years ago now. That's like a gut wound.) where Data plays this incredibly complicated board game with an alien ambassador and finds that he can't win if he just tries to do everything perfectly. In the end he has to adopt the strategy of playing to achieve a stalemate before he gets anywhere. That's the sort of thing.

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[johndude222]

Yeah I am seeing a counselor tomorrow.

Well, the thing is you are no longer a student so the reason for you to help others is a bit different no? For someone -student- to spend so much time on the discussion boards, is it wrong to assume that she at least have something in common? By my reasoning logic, it seems highly probable no?

If I have something else to do, I wouldn't spend so much time on the discussion boards. Could be just me.

 

[Huckleberry]

I wouldn't just write off any possibility of friendship with these people. There is a pattern of them using you, but you are partly responsible for that pattern as well because you allowed it to happen. It isn't worth getting upset at someone when you haven't told them that what they are doing bothers you, but you continue to do it anyway.

Rather, tell them what is bothering you. Tell them you would be willing to help them with their assignments, but you will not do their assignments for them anymore. Show them how to do it, but allow them to learn from doing it themselves. If they accept this compromise then they have some respect for you. If they suddenly don't want to be friends with you anymore then they are only using you. Being trusting and considerate aren't faults. You are only a sucker if you know people are using you, but allow it to happen regardless.

 

[proton]

johndude, you seem similar to me - 20 yr old asian who can't make friends easily, except I'm lucky enough to not have met people who are using me

i learned that in college, since there's so many people, you have to be really aggressive in making friends - you can't expect them to come up to you

i can't really offer much advice since I'm still really working on my social life

 

[Astronuc]

The knight in shiny armor who is always nice to his ladies is suppose to be the ultimate role model. (Fights a beast but always super gentle to his ladies whatever)

So all the stuff I learned is fake and don't work in the real world?

It has always worked for me in the real world.

Also about the comment regarding zen archer, how do I know when it is time to be nice and when it is time to give them the finger?

I always try to be nice, and I never give anyone the finger.

 

[Moonbear]

Maybe all the folks who "come out" here as not having an easy time making friends could start talking to each other by PM and become friends.

 

[Cyrus]

I can't believe what I am reading...that sound was my jaw hitting the floor. (ouch)

Beyond pathetic. All time new low for PF, seriously guys. I don't not like what I am reading. You are wayyyyyy to old to be asking this.

 

[Cyrus]

Huh ok. then why do they teach you all those chivalry stuff in school when you are a kid? I meant I was taught is good to be super nice to people.

The knight in shiny armor who is always nice to his ladies is suppose to be the ultimate role model. (Fights a beast but always super gentle to his ladies whatever)

So all the stuff I learned is fake and don't work in the real world?

Also about the comment regarding zen archer, how do I know when it is time to be nice and when it is time to give them the finger?

If you really, truly, honestly, cannot answer these questions for yourself, you need to talk to a doctor. Did you ever go outside your house and talk to other people? If not, you should consider suing your parents for child abuse. At this point, I can honestly see them keeping you locked up in your house all day, every day, except for the few hours you go to school and come back.

This is just way too far out in left field, and Id like to know how you got this way.

 

[moe darklight]

Yea dude, I agree with cyrus. you sound beyond just socially awkward. I'd look into some therapy, not just counseling (there's a big difference between the two), it sounds like you really really need it.

I'm not saying it to be mean; I'm just being honest. If you really have that much trouble understanding such basic aspects of human interaction, you need to go to a specialist or it will just get worse and worse.

This doesn't sound like something you can solve over a forum or with a counselor, it's beyond friendly advice.

 

[Pyrrhus]

Hey there johndude!, let me tell you all your problems come from within. Your high and lows come from being an externally validated guy. You need to feel you are liked by everybody even though you end up being their college slave... That is wrong. You need to show your personality!, you need to do what do you want! and stop asking for permission and just grab stuff. You need to be internally validated.

Frankly, the good knight stuff DOES work!, if you come from that frame!. Coming from the right frame is important!. When you meet somebody, you need to always be congruent which who you are, because then later when you start doing what you REALLY want you'll be incongruent and thus awkward, weird and creepy. Do the good knight stuff if that is truly what you want to do.

I don't know what's up with this lack of personality you have... It looks like you are confused and don't even know what you truly want in life. In my opinion YOU need to MAN UP!, stop being a child and become a man already. You are 20 years old! and if you don't handle this part of your life (socializing) NOW!, then when will you handle it?.

So, go out! have a drink! (no need to get hammered or anything harmful for your health), approach people (they don't bite) and talk with them. Start plans with the people who share your interests and go have fun. Life is meant to be enjoyed!. Good luck! and you'll get there!

Ah and i forgot, don't be afraid to try new activities like surfing, paragliding, etc...

 

[Poop-Loops]

Knight in shining armor vs. doormat:

Check the link I posted. It basically dissects that issue completely. "Being nice" and "being a doormat" are two different things. People like people who are confident and nice. People who are nice but have no spine are boring. People who have a spine but are jerks we just avoid.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=1614254&postcount=52

 

[lisab]

"Being nice" and "being a doormat" are two different things. People like people who are confident and nice. People who are nice but have no spine are boring. People who have a spine but are jerks we just avoid.

That's a good, concise summary.

Johndude, you said in an earlier post you were going to talk to a counselor today - I hope that went well!

 

[russ_watters]

If you really have that much trouble understanding such basic aspects of human interaction, you need to go to a specialist or it will just get worse and worse.

Heck, for the introverted, logical, mathematical type it should be easy to see: If you treat them one way and they treat you another way, is that greater than, less than, or equal?

You explained in your opening post an unequal relationship (and said it fairly explicitly), so I'm having a little trouble understanding how you can think such a thing could be normal. I suspect that's why cyrus became incredulous about this. It's just tough to fathom being that clueless about how social interaction should work.

 

[Poop-Loops]

I don't know. Some people just have trouble grasping math or art. Why is it so hard to imagine someone having a hard time understanding human interaction?

 

[lisab]

It's just tough to fathom being that clueless about how social interaction should work.

Try a thought experiment. Students of physics love these.

You're 11 years old, and your family decides to move to a foreign country. You have to learn the language, the culture, and all about the new society that is now your home.

So, yeah, social development is going to lag a bit as you learn things like, a whole new alphabet. New sounds you've never heard, much less ever said.

People who come here at a time when even native-born people struggle - adolescence - jeez, it's just got to be tough.

My point is, I don't know how helpful it is to offer "Just buck up!" as advice.

 

[olive5]

I think that you are doing pretty well by staying straight and not going out partying. I also think that your heart is in the right place with regard to your friends. I also see that your friends are dissapointing you. People do that alot. You should not define yourself by the actions of others.
You need to think about how you can have more self confidence. Knowledge builds self esteem. You obviously have a lot of knowledge in your subject areas. As you pursue your expertise professionally, you will see how your skills define who you are.
I am a little surprised that you are using this forum to inquire about your friendship skills. It is after all a substantive forum on the subjects of Physics, Calculus, Math, etc. of which you are most skilled.
You obviously have a lot more to offer than that of your friends. Remember, your friends are a reflection of you. And, the people on the internet are not your friends, and as well, your so called described "friends" are full of short comings.
You have many years ahead of you to establish genuine and long lasting friendships. And those friendships will be built on common interest, joint give and take, and true caring. You have a sense already about this, so give credit, and begin to make good choices in friends. In the mean time, keep up the good school work, it will bring you many rewards.
All the best,

 

[W3pcq]

I have to personally disagree with the majority here in that your friends are only using you. People who have problems in life often become harsh in their self judgment. Your friends may not be as bad as you might think. I'm sure they appreciate the help, and in the moments you do talk, I'm sure they are mostly friendly. The goal is to be your own friend first and start looking at the brighter sides of things. Their is often great treasures and paths in life that we can only see if we are looking up. I'm sure you don't suck at everything. Chances are you are an overachiever. You need to realize that the bulk of happiness in life isn't dependent on being really good at anything. Being a good person alone is more important than having any special exceptional skills. You like to help people to feel like better person. I say you are a good person.

What are you going to do when you grow up? When you begin the next phase of your life things might change a great deal. Right now you are walking a path in life, and a positive attitude even in the worst of situations will eventually lead you in a good direction.

You said that they don't include you in the fun, but maybe your view of fun is different. You like to sit and enjoy time to yourself. The way I think of it, that is somewhat of an advantage, you don't need to impare yourself and do stupid things just to enjoy yourself. Your friends probably go crazy in the library and get depressed.

Helping people is a great way to interact with people and boost self esteem. I say that being a sucker depending on the severity and intentions can be bad. A bad case is when they are harming you like stealing, or if their is a conspiracy against you or something.

 

[johndude222]

No, I havn't seen the counselor yet. I am planning to do that on wednesday and see what results I get.

Ok, so apparently I don't have personality. That's probably true cause I don't even know what personality is. Yeah I don't know human to human interaction too well either cause well you know, I had relatively few close human contact in my life. Mostly interacted with my family. When I first came here, I didn't speak English nor know the social norms. The outside world was very hostile to me. (I get teased and made fun of all of the time in elementary school, when I first came. Got better in middle school and gone by high school) Hey I wish there was a textbook so I can read up on it.

I dunno, I thought myself as pretty independent. Most people at my age - first year university-are living in residence. They can't fathom the thought of living by themselves. I live by myself and financially independent. (Only money I get is from loan and bursuaries and that pay for my tutiton, food and rent) I dunno, I guess I stay in isolation alot. Sometimes that becomes too unbearable and that might be why I sometimes don't mind being a "doormat". I rather have human interactions than stay in complete isolation.

Some of you seems to view me as a freak. A disease that needs to be eliminated by going to see professional help. Yes, I do understand the importance of seeking professional help but I don't like the way you guys are pushing it. Is like I am an unbearable social disease or something, that needs to be eradicated from the society asap.

 

[Astronuc]

I wouldn't go so far as to say or think that one is a freak. Quite the contrary, one's situation is probably somewhat typical.

Social interaction action is a skill, plain and simple. It takes to time to learn, and the only way is to learn by doing.

Anyone needs to be assertive - as in self-confident - not aggressive or egocentric. One has to like oneself.

Simply find people who have similar interests.


And don't be down on oneself.


Think positively.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I am too ugly/too much a nerd to get laid.

I showed this to my wife and she said that those didn't seem like such terrible impediments to her. Now I'm depressed. Seriously, here are a few things to think about.

1. Do something for yourself. Even if you are helping others with their assignments, make sure you are doing it because you want to. Don't expect any other reward. If you get strokes for it, all the better.

2. When in the supermarket, ask the other women shoppers how to cook the stuff they sell there. You can practice on the older ones, but work your way over to the ones your own age.

3. When speaking to girls, have an exit strategy. That is to say, if you find yourself nervous and starting to say nerdy things, suddenly remember that you have a pressing engagement and cut out.

 

[Cyrus]

Try a thought experiment. Students of physics love these.

You're 11 years old, and your family decides to move to a foreign country. You have to learn the language, the culture, and all about the new society that is now your home.

So, yeah, social development is going to lag a bit as you learn things like, a whole new alphabet. New sounds you've never heard, much less ever said.

People who come here at a time when even native-born people struggle - adolescence - jeez, it's just got to be tough.

My point is, I don't know how helpful it is to offer "Just buck up!" as advice.

Sorry, that ant going to fly around here. I know lots of people that I met in school that came to the US around that age, all of them normal.

 

[Cyrus]

No, I havn't seen the counselor yet. I am planning to do that on wednesday and see what results I get.

Ok, so apparently I don't have personality. That's probably true cause I don't even know what personality is. Yeah I don't know human to human interaction too well either cause well you know, I had relatively few close human contact in my life. Mostly interacted with my family. When I first came here, I didn't speak English nor know the social norms. The outside world was very hostile to me. (I get teased and made fun of all of the time in elementary school, when I first came. Got better in middle school and gone by high school) Hey I wish there was a textbook so I can read up on it.

I dunno, I thought myself as pretty independent. Most people at my age - first year university-are living in residence. They can't fathom the thought of living by themselves. I live by myself and financially independent. (Only money I get is from loan and bursuaries and that pay for my tutiton, food and rent) I dunno, I guess I stay in isolation alot. Sometimes that becomes too unbearable and that might be why I sometimes don't mind being a "doormat". I rather have human interactions than stay in complete isolation.

Some of you seems to view me as a freak. A disease that needs to be eliminated by going to see professional help. Yes, I do understand the importance of seeking professional help but I don't like the way you guys are pushing it. Is like I am an unbearable social disease or something, that needs to be eradicated from the society asap.

Do you think your the only person that lives on their own and pays for their down college? Evo is right, cry me a river man. I don't think kids teased you because you didnt speak english, and what country did you come from, an african hut village?

 

[CaptainQuasar]

Some of you seems to view me as a freak. A disease that needs to be eliminated by going to see professional help. Yes, I do understand the importance of seeking professional help but I don't like the way you guys are pushing it. Is like I am an unbearable social disease or something, that needs to be eradicated from the society asap.

I think I can see which comments are giving you this impression and I disagree with them. Particularly moe's assertion that you're “beyond socially awkward,” you seem pretty firmly within the range of normal to me. Not that being abnormal is even a fault, anyways.

If you really are chronically experiencing depression every couple of weeks as you've described and it has gone on for a while that is definitely worth inquiring with a counselor about. It definitely doesn't make you a freak, chronic depression is very common now and has been throughout history. You should think of it as you would going to a doctor because there's a chronic pain in your wrist that doesn't go away.

Do you think your the only person that lives on their own and pays for their down college? Evo is right, cry me a river man. I don't think kids teased you because you didnt speak english, and what country did you come from, an african hut village?

Depending on the college you go to it can definitely feel that way. I went to a private college where everyone else got scholarships or had their way paid for by their parents. I was one of very few people who commuted and even fewer who paid their own tuition - it was all either money I'd saved up beforehand or loans, no leaning on mommy and daddy like so many of the others did. It's quite a different experience from a school where there are lots and lots of commuters.

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[lah214]

They are definitely not your friends. Just because you aren't good at anything doesn't mean you can't go out and have fun! Join a club sport or something, even if you suck, be the first one to make fun of yourself! People will love you! If your funny, you can't go wrong!
And also, don't join the military for those reasons.