My understanding of Space, Time and spacetime

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter halix
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Space Spacetime Time
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the relationship between space, time, and spacetime, emphasizing that time is intrinsically linked to spatial changes. Participants reference Einstein's theories, particularly Special Relativity (SR) and General Relativity (GR), to argue that time dilation results from spatial distortions rather than being an independent phenomenon. The conversation highlights the importance of precise terminology and understanding established physics concepts to avoid misconceptions. Participants also critique the notion of ether theories, asserting that they do not align with modern physics principles.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Special Relativity (SR) and General Relativity (GR)
  • Familiarity with time dilation and length contraction concepts
  • Knowledge of atomic clocks and their role in measuring time
  • Basic grasp of energy transformation and its relation to time
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the implications of Lorentz transformations in Special Relativity
  • Explore the concept of gravitational time dilation in General Relativity
  • Investigate the historical context and criticisms of ether theories
  • Learn about the experimental evidence supporting time dilation and length contraction
USEFUL FOR

This discussion is beneficial for physics students, educators, and enthusiasts seeking a deeper understanding of the fundamental concepts of spacetime, as well as those interested in the nuances of relativity and its implications in modern physics.

  • #61


DrGreg said:
...which means you haven't understood what I wrote at all. The string certainly does break, as any reliable textbook that discusses this will confirm. Go back and carefully read what I wrote again, and read the the rest of the thread it was in.
Ok, I read the first 3 pages of that thread and stand my grounds. Sorry. I find the whole topic distasteful. You think otherwise and that is fine. Let an actual experiment decide.
A.T. said:
It breaks in every frame. SR says that objects are longer in their rest frame than in a frame in which they move. So if an object keeps a constant length in a frame in which it accelerates (as given in this scenario), then it must increase in length in its rest frame (proper length).
SR says that objects appear shorter in a frame in which they move. In comparison with the frame where they are at rest. Everything shortens in the moving frame, objects and space that houses them.

A.T. said:
Only in their initial rest frame, they are moving in unison. In the accelerating frame they are moving apart.
-? In the first 3 pages of that thread everyone agreed and it was stressed several times that the distance between ships stays the same, including during acceleration.

A.T. said:
It is irrelevant how you define your "objects". You can break a single object, if you enforce a constant length in a frame where it accelerates.
I disagree. In my book, all objects that are at rest in respect to each other constitute the same frame. Otherwise, all objects should break all the time. IN REAL LIFE.

A.T. said:
And that transformation says that an object must elongate in it's rest frame, if it keeps a constant length in the frame where it accelerates.
No it does not. It says that objects appear shorter when they move fast in respect to observer (to that observer only!).

A.T. said:
Without defining what "really" and "appears" is, this is a meaningless statement.
Yes, I had an epiphany last week that SR is all about appearances, about how things are not what they seem, how the same thing will look different for various observers. That's because the speed of light is a constant and Lorentz transform will make things look shorter at high speeds; and gravity bends light, making an object appear in a wrong place; and no object may be seen moving faster than c, because you see only what light delivers and its speed is fixed. Basically, what it says is that you should not trust what you see, especially if you're moving fast in respect to what you're seeing. That's what I understood last week, and for this I thank this forum.
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #62


Spacie said:
SR says that objects appear shorter in a frame in which they move. In comparison with the frame where they are at rest.
They don't "appear" shorter. They are shorter.

Spacie said:
In the first 3 pages of that thread everyone agreed and it was stressed several times that the distance between ships stays the same, including during acceleration.
The distance stays the same in the initial rest frame of the rockets. It does not stay the same in all frames.

Spacie said:
That's because the speed of light is a constant and Lorentz transform will make things look shorter at high speeds; and gravity bends light, making an object appear in a wrong place
Wrong. It is not about how objects "look". In fact a fast moving object would not look contracted:
http://www.spacetimetravel.org/fussball/fussball.html

Length contraction is not what you see. It is what is left after you account for finite light speed to calculate the actual size of the object

Spacie said:
That's what I understood last week, and for this I thank this forum.
Well, your understanding is completely wrong. So no need to say thanks.
 

Similar threads

Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • · Replies 44 ·
2
Replies
44
Views
6K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 30 ·
2
Replies
30
Views
5K
  • · Replies 95 ·
4
Replies
95
Views
8K
  • · Replies 37 ·
2
Replies
37
Views
6K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K