NASA schedules briefing to announce MAJOR finding on Mars

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around NASA's announcement regarding new findings related to water on Mars, as revealed during a briefing. Participants explore the implications of this discovery for potential life on Mars, colonization efforts, and the broader questions of extraterrestrial life. The conversation includes speculative reasoning and varying interpretations of the significance of the findings.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express excitement about the possibility of current water on Mars, suggesting it could support microbial life and future colonization efforts.
  • Others question the significance of microbial life, arguing that the potential for water to support a colony is more important.
  • A few participants express skepticism about the claims of liquid water, suggesting that observed geological changes on Mars may not necessarily indicate the presence of water.
  • Some participants propose that finding microbial life on Mars could imply that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe, while others caution against overestimating the implications of such a discovery.
  • There are discussions about the potential sources of water on Mars, including subsurface aquifers and snowmelt, as well as the ongoing nature of the briefing and the need for more information.
  • Humorous remarks about the implications of water and microbes, including speculative ideas about Martian breweries, are also present.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the significance of the findings, with no clear consensus on whether the discovery of water or the potential for microbial life is more important. Some agree on the excitement surrounding the announcement, while others remain skeptical about the interpretations of the data.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the briefing is ongoing, and many claims are based on preliminary information. There is uncertainty regarding the definitions and implications of the findings, particularly concerning the nature of the water and its potential sources.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in astrobiology, planetary science, and the search for extraterrestrial life may find this discussion relevant, as well as those following NASA's Mars exploration missions.

  • #31
I'm a bit skeptical about the big news. Yeah, it's interesting to notice that crater walls have undergone landslides/sandslides over a period of years, but that should be an expected observation, not a surprise. Mars is not the Moon. It has an atmosphere, and may also exhibit seismic activity, so we should see weathering, erosion, and settling. If nothing on the surface ever changed, that would be the more surprising observation. It seems to me that it is a huge stretch to observe little slides on steep slopes and claim that they are proof that liquid water exists on the Martian surface. Great "gee whiz" factor, but pretty shaky science, IMO.
 
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  • #32
dontdisturbmycircles said:
Yea I think that if we find microbial life on Mars it would suggest that more intelligent life (perhaps, of course) is probable throughout the billions of galaxies that make up the visible universe. I think that one of the fundamental human questions is "are we alone?" And if we can find bacterial life on mars, the answer could be no we have confirmed that we are here with microbes on Mars :biggrin:.

OTOH, it also doesn't hurt the cause of a solar-system exogenesis; i.e. abiogenesis only occurred once -- on Mars. After a while, life transferred to Earth by riding on Martian ejecta. In this case, life arose only once and I don't think it would suggest that life is widespread throughout the universe.
 
  • #33
I'm curious to find out how the Mars life is doing, those bacteriums we've been sending over on the probes and rovers.
 
  • #34
Well no, definitely not widespread, when I said that it is probable throughout the galaxies I am talking like 5-10 per galaxy. But I guess that is true that it does not rule out that life originated on earth/mars and was transferred elsewhere. But again, on the other hand, it proves that life can exist on planets such as mars, which increases the chance that life will be found elsewhere. I suppose it will depend on what we find (if anything) in that water (eventually)

And also, as turbo-1 pointed out it may not be water at all. So yea, we'll see.
 
  • #35
Wonder what the water tastes like?
 
  • #36
Cold dirty water most likely. Very acidic perhaps? :-p

Maybe the bottled water companies will start selling Mars water? :smile:
 
  • #37
turbo-1 said:
I'm a bit skeptical about the big news. Yeah, it's interesting to notice that crater walls have undergone landslides/sandslides over a period of years, but that should be an expected observation, not a surprise. Mars is not the Moon. It has an atmosphere, and may also exhibit seismic activity, so we should see weathering, erosion, and settling. If nothing on the surface ever changed, that would be the more surprising observation. It seems to me that it is a huge stretch to observe little slides on steep slopes and claim that they are proof that liquid water exists on the Martian surface. Great "gee whiz" factor, but pretty shaky science, IMO.

I don't think the current evidence supports a geologic explanation as you seem to suggest. For example, the deposits at the botom of the erosion channel in the pictures have "finger-like branches" and diverted around obstacles. I think if it was due to geologic processes, we would see a more coarse texture.

Now, I'm not sure the liquid water explanation is conclusive yet... the pictures were not high enough resolution to overwhelm the other explanation -- it might be formed by CO2, as a lot of the computer models in the past have shown.
 
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  • #38
SimplePie said:
I don't think the current evidence supports a geologic explanation as you seem to suggest. For example, the deposits at the botom of the erosion channel in the pictures have "finger-like branches" and diverted around obstacles. I think if it was due to geologic processes, we would see a more coarse texture.

Now, I'm not sure the liquid water explanation is conclusive yet... the pictures were not high enough resolution to overwhelm the other explanation -- it might be formed by CO2, as a lot of the computer models in the past have shown.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061207/ap_on_sc/mars_water
Some researchers were skeptical that liquid water was responsible for the surface feature changes seen by the spacecraft . They said other materials such as sand or dust can flow like a liquid and produce similar results.

"Nothing in the images, no matter how cool they are, proves that the flows were wet, or that they were anything more exciting than avalanches of sand and dust," Allan Treiman, a geologist at the Lunar and Planetary Institute in Houston said in an e-mail.
NASA gets funding when people are excited about their projects. Claiming to have evidence for liquid water on the surface of Mars based on these images is great public-relations and poor science. The public hears "water on Mars" and assumes that the those smart guys at NASA have incontrovertible proof backing up the assertion. There is no such proof.

Those of us who are interested in planetary/space exploration and keep current on NASA projects know what great work these people are doing, and the faux-science dog-and-pony shows like yesterday's press conference do little credit to their work. I am an amateur astronomer with a pretty decent-sized 'scope, and I can tell you that there are times when the surface details of Mars are substantially obscured by dust storms. Between these storms and the constant heating/cooling cycles the planet undergoes, we should expect to see erosion and changes in Mars' surface, including collapses/slides on steep slopes. To see such changes and holler "water!" is unsubstantiated. Nobody who is familiar with the climatology of Mars would expect that the surface of Mars would remain unchanged for years, nor would they need to invoke liquid water to explain the changes. Follow the funding.
 
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  • #39
Why is there necessarily water if there is just a few big spots that appeared over a seven year period?
 
  • #40
Mk said:
Why is there necessarily water if there is just a few big spots that appeared over a seven year period?
That's just the point. There are major storms on Mars as well as temperature fluctuations, so you would expect to see slides of dust and sand on steep walls over the years, as well as other signs of natural weathering, such as the formation and erosions of dunes, etc. The claim that these photos are evidence of erosion caused by flowing water is quite far-fetched. Anyone who has seen sand-slides on a dune or footage of an avalanche knows that solids can exhibit collective behavior that is quite similar to that of liquids.
 
  • #41
I'll agree that alternatives are possible. But the main point is not that Martian craters are seeing disturbances, it is that the erosion channels on the craters have a pattern of disturbance that is characteristic of liquid flow. Looking at deposits previously known to have been the result of dry events (avalanches, "dust devils", atc) on Mars, the deposits on these photos look different.
 
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  • #42
Ivan Seeking said:
I think there might be a few more steps in between. :biggrin:
i usually think a few steps forward.
 
  • #43
dimensionless said:
It's interesting but I don't think finding microbes on Mars, or colonizing Mars should be mankids primary scientific endever. While I think it's cool, I also think it is unlikely to be useful to us until we have a breakthrough in energy production (fathom the implications of efficient fusion energy).
We certainly have plenty of issues to address here on earth, but I don't believe that we have to forego space exploration.

As for fusion energy, assuming it is perfected, and ultimately much of our electrical energy is derived from fusion, then one long term issue will be what to do with all the helium that is produced. Releasing it do the atmosphere over thousands of years will definitely change the physical characteristics of the atmosphere and the weather. But that's a long way off.
 
  • #44
Is this proof enough for you skeptics?
WaterOnMars2_gcc.jpg
 
  • #45
Yonoz said:
Is this proof enough for you skeptics?
:smile: I'm convinced now!
 
  • #46
What happened to those candy bars? I haven't seen any in Arizona for a while... :(

I guess I will have to broaden my likes and open up some room for a milky way.
 
  • #47
Yonzo, I already told you to stop drinking Retsina and listening to late night radio... :smile:
 
  • #48
Anttech said:
Yonzo, I already told you to stop drinking Retsina and listening to late night radio... :smile:
I've tried, believe me. It's become a habit.
 

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