Need a book for introductory thermodynamics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around recommendations for introductory textbooks in thermodynamics, particularly for a participant preparing for a course with limited prior knowledge in the subject. The scope includes considerations of mathematical prerequisites and the clarity of explanations in various texts.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses concern about the clarity of course notes and seeks a textbook that aligns with their current understanding of physics and mathematics.
  • Another participant recommends Schroeder's book as a standard text that does not assume advanced math, while noting that Reif's book is more pedagogical but may be overwhelming due to its length.
  • A different participant suggests "A Course in Thermodynamics Vol. 1" by Joseph Kestin as a potentially beneficial but lengthy and somewhat outdated option, emphasizing its depth.
  • One participant mentions financial constraints and inquires about the clarity of explanations in Schroeder's book, particularly regarding the physics behind equations.
  • Another participant recommends Fermi's book as a supplementary resource to the academic texts discussed.
  • Questions arise about the comparison of Kittel & Kroemer's book to the other recommended texts, with one participant sharing a positive personal experience despite its difficulty.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple competing views on the suitability of various textbooks, with no consensus on a single recommended text. Some express preferences for specific books based on their clarity and pedagogical approach, while others highlight the challenges of understanding the material.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention varying levels of familiarity with the recommended texts and express concerns about the depth of explanations provided in different books. There is also a recognition that certain mathematical techniques are standard in thermodynamics but may not be well understood without specific instruction.

Who May Find This Useful

Students preparing for introductory thermodynamics courses, educators seeking textbook recommendations, and individuals interested in supplementary resources for better understanding of thermodynamics concepts.

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I have course in thermodynamics that'll start in a few weeks. But it seems that we are just going to use notes instead of a textbook. Last time I used notes in another course I didn't understand the whole subject, because their notes where pretty poor and unclear when explaining subjects.
I only finished a course in classical mechanics (in physics), as for the math, I have basics knowledgde about calculus and linear algebra. But I'll have another math course at the same time as the thermodynamics course, where I'll learn about vector calculus and partiel diff. equations.
Now I want to ask if someone can recommend a good introductory textbook in thermodynamics, that I can understand with my current knowledge in physics and math (the aforementioned).
 
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Schroeder is the standard, it doesn't assume any math beyond your level. Reif is more careful and pedagogical, but it may be hard at your level to extract useful information from its 500 pages or so. Schroeder is more compact and focused. The other standard book is Kittel, which I know nothing about.

In thermodynamics, there are "standard" mathematical techniques used which are obscure elsewhere, so they are taught in the course itself. If you get Schroeder for instance, go to the appendices and learn about the Stirling's approximations, volume of n-dimensional spheres, simplifying very large numbers (10^23 + 10^3 = 10^23), some properties of probability and counting, and the factorial and the gamma function.
 
I recommend the text A Course in Thermodynamics Vol. 1 by Joseph Kestin. It's a long winded and (in some parts) outdated book, but keep reading and you're almost certain to walk away with a better knowledge of the subject than the typical undergraduate books available. It would also serve as a great supplement if you find particular concepts boggling. Check to see if it's at your university library; and if it is, whether it's right for you.
 
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Due to financial reasons I can probably only afford Shroeder's book. Is it btw you were talking about Rash3? Reading the reviews it sounds like a good text.
Does the book explain the physics behind the equations, or are they just represented and the reader has to consider all the physics? Because the textbook we had in mechanics, on many occasion never explained in details the physics behind the equations, like for example stating "We define angular moment as L = rxp, and torque is defined as dL/dt", which is really something poor, and I never got the intuitive feeling about what the concept really was. Tat is until I read about the subject in the "Feynman Lectures" (well Feynman Lectures did have extraordinary explanations).
So does the book An Introduction to Thermal Physics, by Shroeder explains the "physics"?

Btw, it seems that in the last thermodynamics course had used Kittel's text, Thermal Physics, but I don't know anything about that book.
 
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I'd recommend Fermi's little book as a supplement to all these academic textbooks.
 
How is Kittel & Kroemer compared to these books? I know it's an old book, but the department here is still using it!
 
I'm not really familiar with the other books, so I can't really compare it, but I enjoyed Kittel and Kroemer. It wasn't an easy read by any means, but once I understood what they were talking about, I really felt that I *understood* what they were talking about.

A few answers at the end of the book wouldn't have killed them though.
 

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