Need help reconciling two statements about refrigerants

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter fourthindiana
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Discussion Overview

This discussion revolves around the properties and behavior of refrigerants, specifically CFCs and HCFCs, in relation to their molecular weight and their presence in the stratosphere. Participants explore the implications of these properties for leak detection and the environmental impact of refrigerants.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that refrigerants are heavier than air, which is emphasized in their HVAC textbook regarding leak testing procedures.
  • Another participant argues that CFCs and HCFCs only break up when they reach the stratosphere, suggesting that they can still ascend despite being heavier than air due to mixing with air and being carried by air currents.
  • A different viewpoint highlights that refrigerant leaking indoors is not only heavier than air but also cold, which increases its density and may affect its behavior in confined spaces.
  • One participant notes that individual chlorine atoms, which are released from CFCs and HCFCs, are also heavier than air.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how the molecular weight of refrigerants affects their presence in the stratosphere, with no consensus reached on the mechanisms involved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the behavior of gases in the atmosphere, the effects of temperature on density, and the processes by which refrigerants reach the stratosphere. There are unresolved questions regarding the specific conditions under which CFCs and HCFCs break down and their transport mechanisms.

fourthindiana
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I am a student attending a trade school, majoring in HVAC. My air-conditioning textbook says that refrigerants are heavier than air. The context for this is a chapter in my textbook about how to conduct leak testing. My textbook says something to the effect of the following: "Refrigerants are heavier than air, so one must leak check underneath a refrigerant line (as opposed to above a refrigerant line) to find a leak."

I have long known that refrigerants are heavier than air. My understanding has always been that the reason that CFCs and HCFCs have depleted the ozone layer is that the CFCs and HCFCs break up close to the ground due to chemical reactions. And then after the CFCs and HCFCs have broken up due to chemical reactions, the individual chlorine atoms float up to the stratosphere because individual chlorine atoms are lighter than air. Then when the individual chlorine atoms reach the stratosphere, then the individual chlorine atoms deplete the ozone layer. However, a sentence I read in a study guide for the EPA certification test gives me doubts about my understanding of how chlorine atoms in CFCs and HCFCs reach the stratosphere.

The study guide for the EPA certification test says the following: "CFCs and HCFCs have been found in air samples taken from the stratosphere."

The study guide for the EPA certification test does not say that individual chlorine atoms that were formerly in compounds making up CFCs and HCFCs have been found in the stratosphere. The study guide says that CFCs and HCFCs have been found in the stratosphere.

If CFC refrigerant and HCFC refrigerant is heavier than air, how can CFCs and HCFCs be in the stratosphere?
 
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The CFCs only break up when they reach the stratosphere, not close to the ground. The HCFC react with OH radicals closer to the ground, but large amounts of them also make it into the stratosphere before breaking up. The reason that the CFC and HCFC molecules are able to make it to the stratosphere is that they mix with the air and are transported upward by air currents. This happens even though they have higher molecular weight than air. So-called gravitational segregation is very little once they mix with the air.
 
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In addition to being heavier than air by molecular weight, refrigerant leaking from a residential split system indoors is also likely to be cold, which would make it even more dense. It's also confined, so it doesn't get stirred-up by wind.
 
Individual chlorine atoms are also heavier than air.
 

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