Need to understand & manipulate EPS foam extrusion & production

AI Thread Summary
To understand and manipulate EPS foam extrusion, focus on studying polymer engineering and the chemical processes involved in foam production. Key areas of interest include the theoretical modeling of material flow during molding and the practical aspects of molding equipment. Resources such as the "Handbook of Polymer Foams" and research papers on foaming processes can provide valuable insights. Engaging with industry professionals from companies like BASF or local Plastics Institutes may also enhance understanding. Mastery of these topics will require significant study time and experimentation to grasp the complexities of foam behavior and defect management.
nour hashem
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Hi

I was wondering where I should look and what specifically should I study if i am trying to understand foam extrusion as a chemical process. , why certain defects appear in foam products considering that they are as a result of some extrusion or chemical mistakes. in short, i want to know enough to be able to a control how EPS foam behaves/shapes (to obtain certain properties in desired coefficients/amounts if possible).

I would like to know as well how much studying (time) would this take, if anyone knows, and the level of difficulty of the task.

Thanks.
 
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nour hashem said:
Hi

I was wondering where I should look and what specifically should I study if i am trying to understand foam extrusion as a chemical process. , why certain defects appear in foam products considering that they are as a result of some extrusion or chemical mistakes. in short, i want to know enough to be able to a control how EPS foam behaves/shapes (to obtain certain properties in desired coefficients/amounts if possible).

I would like to know as well how much studying (time) would this take, if anyone knows, and the level of difficulty of the task.

Thanks.
Welcome to the PF. :smile:

What have you found so far in your Google searches?
 
Perhaps someone has written a book on the subject?
 
berkeman said:
Welcome to the PF. :smile:

What have you found so far in your Google searches?
Nothing relevant really at least Not at the level I wanted/expected. Maybe I am using the wrong terms, after all I am not a chemical/materials engineer. That's all I know and I came here seeking help from those who are knowledgeable in relevant fields of study.
 
CWatters said:
Perhaps someone has written a book on the subject?
Maybe, but where do you think I should look? And which terms should I use to look for that ? Can you suggest any names ??
 
 
Any more suggestions ??
 
nour hashem said:
Any more suggestions ??
Just mentioning terms that might be related is enough
 
  • #10
Polymer engineering, polymer reactions etc
 
  • #11
CWatters said:
Polymer engineering, polymer reactions etc
You are just using the term "polymer" in different combinations. Please Don't get me wrong I appreciate your help, but you are not adding anything with your latter suggestions/terms.
 
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  • #12
nour hashem said:
You are just using the term "polymer" in different combinations. Plz Don't get me wrong I appreciate your help, but you are not adding anything with your latter suggestions/terms.
Do you know terms other than polymer that might be related ?
 
  • #15
What more do you need to know ?

Do you want information about the practical engineering of the moulding equipment or theoretical modelling of the material flow in the moulding process ?
 
  • #16
Nidum said:
What more do you need to know ?

Do you want information about the practical engineering of the moulding equipment or theoretical modelling of the material flow in the moulding process ?
The latter would be helpful, I think. But I don't think this is enough on its own if you consider my purpose (refer to the question above if you haven't done so already).

Anyways, can you help me with the latter suggestion of yours "theoretical modelling of the material flow in the moulding process" either by suggesting names/links, giving specialized terms or informing me on the topic yourself ??
Thank!
 
  • #17
In all the basic product making processes the chemical activity is largely finished before the shape forming process begins so I don't entirely understand the question ?

Anyway the shape forming processes all involve variants of the injection moulding principle - there's lot's of information on that available .

I think that the flow of an expanding / cooling / setting flow of foam in a duct could be modeled somehow but it's not going to be easy . Probably within the scope of CFD but a lot of work needed and a lot of validation by experiment .
 
  • #18
Nidum said:
In all the basic product making processes the chemical activity is largely finished before the shape forming process begins so I don't entirely understand the question ?

Anyway the shape forming processes all involve variants of the injection moulding principle - there's lot's of information on that available .

I think that the flow of an expanding / cooling / setting flow of foam in a duct could be modeled somehow but it's not going to be easy . Probably within the scope of CFD but a lot of work needed and a lot of validation by experiment .
How/where should I start sir ?

Also what is CFD ?
 
  • #20
Nidum said:
In all the basic product making processes the chemical activity is largely finished before the shape forming process begins so I don't entirely understand the question ?

Anyway the shape forming processes all involve variants of the injection moulding principle - there's lot's of information on that available .

I think that the flow of an expanding / cooling / setting flow of foam in a duct could be modeled somehow but it's not going to be easy . Probably within the scope of CFD but a lot of work needed and a lot of validation by experiment .
Also, from my experience, not all shape forming processes involve injection moulding. I have seen thermoforming(not sure I spelled it correctly) machines.
 
  • #21
nour hashem said:
Also what is CFD ?

http://www.solidworks.co.uk/sw/products/simulation/computational-fluid-dynamics.htm
 
  • #22
Thermoforming is usually a secondary production process . Pre moulded sheets of EP are heated and pressed in dies to form generally simple shapes .
 
  • #23
  • #24
Nidum said:
Thermoforming is usually a secondary production process . Pre moulded sheets of EP are heated and pressed in dies to form generally simple shapes .
I have seen extruders that take in small-sized marble-like chemicals and transform them into straight long sheets of foam. Not sure if this is what you are talking about though.

If that's not what you were talking about then I probably didn't get what you wrote

Thanks!
 
  • #25
first-phase-color-by-id.png


Not one of mine - this comes from the SymScale Library - but it shows modelling of plastic beads being fed into a plastisicer .
 

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  • #26
Nidum said:
View attachment 218288

Not one of mine - this comes from the SymScale Library - but it shows modelling of plastic beads being fed into a plastisicer .
Is there a specific program or is it a machine that produces such image/analysis
 
  • #27
Nidum said:
View attachment 218288

Not one of mine - this comes from the SymScale Library - but it shows modelling of plastic beads being fed into a plastisicer .
Also, what should I study to be able to understand, analyze and manipulate such things ??
 
  • #28
Perhaps search Google Books for

Blowing Agents and Foaming Processes (Conference Proceedings)

Looks like a bunch of papers on EPS and other similar foams.
 
  • #29
Hi, You should contact technical people at BASF or Monsanto who developed and manage production quality and applications. Simulation of melt flow is complex but well established wrt mold design to improve economics. Foam properties are closely related to foam density; compressive strength etc. So look at extrusion, injection molding and block molding of EPS and molding of the bead (into fruit boxes etc.). The tech sheets are usually readily available. If stumped talk to a local user of EPS raw materials or your local Plastics Institute. There are not books collecting this vast material in one place.
 

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