- #1
PhDorBust
- 143
- 0
How would you show mathematically that Newton's laws, when taken as given, always yield a motion and that this motion is always unique (given initial positions/velocities) for arbitrary systems?
Last edited:
russ_watters said:I don't understand the question.
You can't. Imagine a point mass atop a frictionless inverted bowl. The bowl is continuous and everywhere differentiable. The gradient is downward except at the peak, where it is zero. The gradient in turn is everywhere differentiable except at the peak, where it has a discontinuity.PhDorBust said:How would you show mathematically that Newton's laws, when taken as given, always yield a result and that this result is always unique (given initial positions/velocities) for arbitrary systems?
D H said:If you start the point mass at rest at the top of the bowl, one solution is that the point mass will just stay there forever. There are however an infinite number of other solutions. The point mass can stay at rest atop the bowl for an arbitrary amount of time and then start sliding down the bowl in any arbitrary direction.
Because its a solution to the ODE. The equations of motion don't have a unique solution.olivermsun said:Why will the point mass just randomly start moving?
olivermsun said:I must be confused about the geometry you are describing. Is this a bowl like the upper half of a sphere
Can you write the ODE?
Edit: okay, I see you were referring to a "bowl" with a singularity at the top. Cute.
Nope. If you knew the initial conditions to infinite precision you could predict the state at any point in the future.cmb said:Is the chaotic motion of a compound pendulum also an example of a dynamic system that is 'not Lipschitz continuous'?
D H said:Nope. If you knew the initial conditions to infinite precision you could predict the state at any point in the future.
D H said:[tex]\frac {d^2 r(t)}{dt^2} = \sqrt r[/tex]
Given initial conditions r(0)=0, r'(0)=0, one solution is the trivial solution r(t)=0. It also has non-trivial solutions
[tex]r(t) = \begin{cases} 0 & t<t_0 \\ \frac{(t-t_0)^4}{144} & t\ge t_0 \end{cases}[/tex]
cmb said:I'm not sure I understand any difference (excepting degrees of freedom) between a ball perched incipiently atop a spherical shell, to that of an inverted pendulum.
Interesting take! It does indeed seem that Newton's first law rules out these non-trivial solutions. There is more to Newton's first than meets the eye.olivermsun said:At first glance, I'm not sure I agree that the non-trivial solutions satisfy Newton's First Law. Although it is an interesting point -- I'd never really given much thought to why the First Law might have been stated separately from the Second. But here might be one case where it might potentially see some use.
Newton's Laws of Motion are a set of three laws that describe the fundamental principles of motion. They were developed by Sir Isaac Newton in the 17th century and are still used today to understand the behavior of objects in motion.
The first law of motion, also known as the law of inertia, states that an object at rest will remain at rest and an object in motion will remain in motion at a constant velocity, unless acted upon by an external force.
The second law of motion states that the acceleration of an object is directly proportional to the net force acting on it and inversely proportional to its mass. This can be expressed mathematically as F=ma, where F is the net force, m is the mass, and a is the acceleration.
The third law of motion, also known as the law of action and reaction, states that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. This means that when one object exerts a force on another object, the second object will exert an equal and opposite force back on the first object.
The uniqueness of motion refers to the fact that every object in the universe has a unique path or trajectory when it is in motion. This is due to the combination of different forces acting on the object, as well as its initial conditions such as position and velocity. Newton's laws help us understand and predict the motion of objects, but the uniqueness of motion means that no two objects will have exactly the same path or behavior.