Newton's Third Law and acceleration question

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of Newton's Third Law in the context of two wrestlers pushing against each other. Participants explore the implications of force, motion, and acceleration, particularly focusing on how equal forces can lead to different outcomes in terms of movement and acceleration due to varying masses and frictional forces.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how both wrestlers can exert equal forces on each other while one is moving, suggesting confusion about the implications of Newton's Third Law.
  • Another participant explains that each wrestler applies a force that pushes them apart, and that the acceleration experienced by each depends on their respective masses.
  • A different participant emphasizes that the wrestlers are continually pushing against each other rather than just pushing off.
  • One participant provides a simplified analogy of a wrestler pushing against a wall, noting that the frictional force plays a crucial role in determining when movement occurs.
  • It is suggested that in a frictionless environment, both wrestlers would start moving simultaneously, with their acceleration determined by their mass and the forces applied.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how forces interact and lead to motion, with no consensus reached on the implications of equal forces in the context of the wrestlers' movement.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence of acceleration on mass and friction, as well as the complexity of force interactions in a dynamic scenario, without resolving the underlying assumptions or conditions affecting the wrestlers' movements.

matajee66
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Two wrestlers are pushing each other. Initially the wrestlers are at rest, however the small wrestler starts to move. Now in either cases, which wrestler exerts more force? My professor said that both exert the same amount of force on each other. This is really confusing as if they are applying equal forces on each other, how are they moving. Also say if the larger wrestler exerts 200 N and the smaller exerts 100 N, wouldn't the forces cancel out? If the larger one exerts 200 N, the smaller one then exerts the same force back right (the reaction force). The smaller wrestler exerts 100 N, then the larger would exert back the 100 N ( again Newton's Third Law). Doesnt this cancel out all forces, then how is there motion?
 
Science news on Phys.org
Each man puts a force on the other that pushes them apart. Further, their is a reaction to each force that each applied on one another that pushes them still further apart. There are no forces that push the two men together. Finally, each man will receive twice the force pushing them apart if both apply an equal force on each other.You might also be confused that [itex]F=ma[/itex] or [itex]a = \frac{F}{m}[/itex]. So the acceleration (their motion) is dependent not only on the force, but also on the mass of the object receiving the force. Thus each man depending on their mass will experience different acceleration or a different motion.
 
see they don't push off each other, they are continually pushing
 
Think of a more simplified situation first:
A wrestler is pushing on a wall. He applies some force F to the wall, which acts with the same force on the wrestler, albeit in the opposite direction. That force is transferred through the wrestler's body to his feet, where friction acts against it. Once the push force is equal or higher than the friction, the wrestler starts to move.
The larger wrestler does the same, only he can apply higher force to the wall before he starts to move, since friction is dependent on wrestler's weight.

Now put these two together and remove the wall. As dydxforsn said, you get the reaction force of one's own push, plus the other guy's push force(which sum up to the same thing for both) acting on each of them. Since the smaller wrestler is not held so firmly in place(the friction between his feet and the ground is lower), he starts moving first.

In space, with no friction, both would start moving at the same time, each one accelerating according to F=ma.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
4K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
7K
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
4K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
14K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 75 ·
3
Replies
75
Views
5K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
2K