Newton's Third Law - Weak Form Application

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the conditions under which Newton's Third Law applies in a weak form, particularly in the context of electromagnetic forces. Participants explore examples and implications of this application, including the behavior of charges and associated magnetic fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the circumstances under which Newton's Third Law applies in a weak form.
  • Another participant suggests that this mainly involves electromagnetic forces.
  • A question is posed regarding whether the Lorentz force obeys Newton's Third Law.
  • One participant describes a scenario with two identical charges moving away from the origin, noting that while electrical forces are repulsive, the magnetic forces do not behave oppositely, even though the total forces are equal.
  • It is proposed that momentum is conserved because the electromagnetic fields themselves carry momentum.
  • A request for further resources or explanations regarding the example of charges and their magnetic interactions is made.
  • Links to previous discussions and suggested readings on electrodynamics are provided by another participant.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the application of Newton's Third Law in the context of electromagnetic forces, particularly regarding the behavior of forces and momentum conservation. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants do not reach a consensus on the specifics of the weak form application of Newton's Third Law, and there are unresolved aspects regarding the definitions and implications of forces in electromagnetic contexts.

DaTario
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Hi all,

I would like to know in which circunstances the third law applies just in the weak form.

Thank you

DaTario
 
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Mostly involving electromagnetic forces.
 
Could you give an example. Doesn't the Lorentz force obey Newton's third law ?
 
Consider two identical charges moving along the x and y axes with same speed away from the origin. The electrical forces between them is repulsive, but now just find out how the magnetic forces between them behave. You don't have to calculate -- just roughly think of the charges as currents and find the direction of the associated magnetic fields like we do for currents.

The total force of one on the other is equal to the force of the other on the former, but they are not opposite.

Ultimately, momentum will be conserved, because the fields themselves carry momentum.
 
Thank you a lot.

Best wishes

DaTario
 
Consider two identical charges moving along the x and y axes with same speed away from the origin. The electrical forces between them is repulsive, but now just find out how the magnetic forces between them behave. You don't have to calculate -- just roughly think of the charges as currents and find the direction of the associated magnetic fields like we do for currents.

The total force of one on the other is equal to the force of the other on the former, but they are not opposite.

Ultimately, momentum will be conserved, because the fields themselves carry momentum.

Any link where this example is further explained ?
Thanks.
 

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