Noise I'm getting in my summing amplifier

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around issues encountered with a summing amplifier used to measure the electrical conductivity (EC) of a solution. Participants explore the behavior of the output voltage and the stability of the power supply, as well as the configuration of the circuit components.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant reports measuring an EC of 0.98V but observes that the output voltage (Vout) of the summing amplifier varies between 4V and 4.5V, raising concerns about the circuit's performance.
  • Another participant questions the definition of "EC of solution" and seeks clarification on the intended function of the circuit.
  • A participant explains that a summing amplifier sums currents at a virtual earth and notes the absence of a resistor to convert the voltage from the potentiometer to a current at the summing node.
  • Concerns are raised about the stability of the –9.3V reference voltage, which is critical for minimizing noise in the signal path.
  • One participant inquires about the input impedance of the EC source and whether it can provide a continuous current of 98µA, calculated from the given voltage and resistance.
  • Another participant mentions that the negative power supply is unstable and asks for recommendations for an integrated circuit (IC) that can provide stable negative power.
  • A suggestion is made to use a 2.5V reference IC, such as the LM336-2.5 or LT1004-2.5, to improve stability, along with a description of how the potentiometer (RV1) is configured in the circuit.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various concerns about the circuit's configuration and performance, but there is no consensus on the specific causes of the issues or the best solutions. Multiple competing views and suggestions are presented without resolution.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions about the circuit's design and the stability of the power supply. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical steps or the implications of the circuit configuration.

Minh Thanh
< Mentor Note -- thread moved to HH from the technical physics forums, so no HH Template is shown >[/color]

I am measuring EC of solution . I got Vec is 0.98V . After that, I took it to summing amplifier to reduce error from measurement . However, I saw a problem is that Vout of summing amplifier was continuously variable from 4.V to 4.5V, with value of potentionmeter is 180k. I hope I receive your help . Tks you !
 

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Minh Thanh said:
< Mentor Note -- thread moved to HH from the technical physics forums, so no HH Template is shown >

I am measuring EC of solution . I got Vec is 0.98V . After that, I took it to summing amplifier to reduce error from measurement . However, I saw a problem is that Vout of summing amplifier was continuously variable from 4.V to 4.5V, with value of potentionmeter is 180k. I hope I receive your help . Tks you !
Welcome to the PF.

What is the "EC of solution"? What is this circuit supposed to do?

On the question of the output voltage, what is Vout when the potentiometer is full CW (grounded wiper)? Is it zero reliably?
 
A summing amplifier sums currents at a node that has a fixed voltage = virtual earth. Resistors convert voltages to currents. I see no resistor that will convert the voltage on the RV1 wiper to a current at the summing node of the amplifier.

To offset a signal you must add or subtract a reference. The –9.3V reference must be stable and quiet to keep any supply voltage drift or noise out of the signal path.

The input impedance of EC? on R2 is 10k. Is the EC source impedance low? Is a continuous current of (0.98V/10k) = 98uA available from the signal source ?
 
Oops! Deleted. I didn't see this was homework and I gave too much information
 
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Baluncore said:
A summing amplifier sums currents at a node that has a fixed voltage = virtual earth. Resistors convert voltages to currents. I see no resistor that will convert the voltage on the RV1 wiper to a current at the summing node of the amplifier.

To offset a signal you must add or subtract a reference. The –9.3V reference must be stable and quiet to keep any supply voltage drift or noise out of the signal path.

The input impedance of EC? on R2 is 10k. Is the EC source impedance low? Is a continuous current of (0.98V/10k) = 98uA available from the signal source ?
I see problem is that the negative power is not stable... I am using IC 7660 to get negative power. Do you have any idea about IC that can give stable negative power ?
 
Minh Thanh said:
Do you have any idea about IC that can give stable negative power ?
A 2.5 volt reference would work OK. Consider LM336-2.5 or LT1004-2.5 or others.

See the attached circuit diagram.
RV1 is a 10k potentiometer, simulated as two parts a and b.
RV1(ab) will offset input voltages between 0 and 2.5 volts.
RV1 will not be linear as there is no voltage buffer between RV1 and R4.
 

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