Noise reduction and square wave/sine function question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around two questions related to noise reduction in decibels and the frequency content of a wave. It explores the calculations involved in determining amplitude reduction and the presence of specific sine functions within a waveform, touching on concepts from signal processing and Fourier analysis.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks how a noise reduction of 6 dB corresponds to a percentage reduction in amplitude, suggesting a calculation using 20log(Av).
  • Another participant confirms that a 6 dB reduction means the amplitude is cut to approximately 50%, providing the calculation as 20 log(A_v) = -6 leading to A_v = 10^(-6/20).
  • There is a question about whether a wave with a period of 0.1 ms contains a 30 kHz sine function, with one participant asserting that the frequency is indeed 10 kHz based on T = 0.1 ms.
  • A later reply clarifies that the original question pertains to the Fourier series of the wave, indicating that it does contain a 30 kHz sine term due to the odd nature of the function and half-wave symmetry.
  • Another participant raises a concern about the ambiguity of the original question regarding the 6 dB reduction, noting that it could refer to noise voltage or power, which have different implications (6 dB for voltage and 3 dB for power).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the calculation for the amplitude reduction related to the 6 dB noise reduction. However, there is disagreement regarding the interpretation of the noise reduction question, with some viewing it as ambiguous based on whether it pertains to voltage or power.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on definitions and context when interpreting decibel reductions and the frequency content of waveforms. The ambiguity in the noise reduction question remains unresolved.

niteshadw
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I have two simple questions but I'm not 100% on how to get the correct result.

1. "The noise is reduced by 6 dB" means its amplitude is cut to _%?
How is it calculated to 50%? I try 20log(Av)...

2. Does this wave contain 30k hertz sine function? (see attachment)
The answer is yes, but I try f=1/T, in this case T = 0.1 ms, so f is 10k, how is it 30k?

Thank you :smile:
 

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niteshadw said:
1. "The noise is reduced by 6 dB" means its amplitude is cut to _%?
How is it calculated to 50%? I try 20log(Av)...
Yes that is what you should try.
[tex]20 \log(A_v) = -6 \Rightarrow A_v = 10^\frac{-6}{20} \approx .50[/tex]

niteshadw said:
2. Does this wave contain 30k hertz sine function? (see attachment) The answer is yes, but I try f=1/T, in this case T = 0.1 ms, so f is 10k, how is it 30k?
You are right in saying that the frequency of your wave is 10kHz. However, I don't think that's what the question is asking. It is asking does this wave *contain* 30KHz sine function. That is, it asking if the Fourier series of this wave includes a sine term that has the frequency 30kHz = 3(10kHz)? The answer is yes. Here is why: The given function is odd which means that only the coefficients b_k's are non-zero. The function is also half-wave symmetric which means that only the odd harmonics of b_k are non-zero. Thus, your Fourier series should have the form:
[tex]f(t) = \sum_{k=1,3,5...}^{\infty} b_k \sin(k(10k)t)[/tex]

Notice that one of the terms in the series is a sine term which has a frequency of 30kHz.
 
Last edited:
Thank you very much, that was much of a help! =)

Swapnil said:
Yes that is what you should try.
[tex]20 \log(A_v) = -6 \Rightarrow A_v = 10^\frac{-6}{20} \approx .50[/tex]


You are right in saying that the frequency of your wave is 10kHz. However, I don't think that's what the question is asking. It is asking does this wave *contain* 30KHz sine function. That is, it asking if the Fourier series of this wave includes a sine term that has the frequency 30kHz = 3(10kHz)? The answer is yes. Here is why: The given function is odd which means that only the coefficients b_k's are non-zero. The function is also half-wave symmetric which means that only the odd harmonics of b_k are non-zero. Thus, your Fourier series should have the form:
[tex]f(t) = \sum_{k=1,3,5...}^{\infty} b_k \sin(k(10k)t)[/tex]

Notice that one of the terms in the series is a sine term which has a frequency of 30kHz.
 
niteshadw said:
1. "The noise is reduced by 6 dB" means its amplitude is cut to _%?
How is it calculated to 50%? I try 20log(Av)...

To me, this question is ambiguous. Noise voltage decreases by 6dB when cut in half. But noise power decreases by 3dB when cut in half. The problem hopefully was more explicit, or was stated in a context that implied either noise voltage (or current) or noise power.
 

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