Non Newtonian / Newtonian Fluid interface

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the behavior of surface waves at the interface between a shear thickening Newtonian fluid (Oobleck) and water. Key points include the necessity of modeling to understand wave propagation and reflection at the interface, as well as the implications of Snell's Law due to the higher density of Oobleck compared to water. Participants emphasize that the boundary conditions must maintain continuous traction at the interface, and the complexity of the system makes simple predictions challenging.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of shear thickening fluids, specifically Oobleck.
  • Knowledge of wave propagation principles in fluids.
  • Familiarity with Snell's Law and its application to wave refraction.
  • Basic concepts of boundary conditions in fluid mechanics.
NEXT STEPS
  • Research modeling techniques for fluid interfaces, focusing on shear thickening fluids.
  • Explore advanced fluid dynamics simulations using software like COMSOL Multiphysics.
  • Study the effects of density differences on wave speed and behavior in different media.
  • Investigate the role of surface tension in wave propagation in fluids.
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Researchers, physicists, and engineers interested in fluid dynamics, particularly those studying wave interactions at fluid interfaces and the behavior of non-Newtonian fluids.

Tom79Tom
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Suppose I have a wave tank partially filled with a shear thickening Newtonian fluid (Oobleck), on top of which sits a layer of water (separated by a thin membrane to prevent mixing)

If I propagate a surface wave in the water layer how will it conduct itself at the Newtonian/Non Newtonian Fluid interface and into the Non Newtonian fluid

Will it be an applied force upon the Non Newtonian fluid that causes shear thickening ? Will it cause reflection of the wave at the interface ?

I also notice that Oobleck has a higher density than water- will Snells law also apply and the surface wave will travel slower in the higher density medium
 
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Tom79Tom said:
Suppose I have a wave tank partially filled with a shear thickening Newtonian fluid (Oobleck), on top of which sits a layer of water (separated by a thin membrane to prevent mixing)

If I propagate a surface wave in the water layer how will it conduct itself at the Newtonian/Non Newtonian Fluid interface and into the Non Newtonian fluid

Will it be an applied force upon the Non Newtonian fluid that causes shear thickening ? Will it cause reflection of the wave at the interface ?

I also notice that Oobleck has a higher density than water- will Snells law also apply and the surface wave will travel slower in the higher density medium
In my judgment, you need to do actual modeling of this problem to get a definitive answer. Neglecting surface tension, the boundary condition at the interface must be that the traction must be continuous (i.e., normal- and shear stresses).
 
Tom79Tom said:
Suppose I have a wave tank partially filled with a shear thickening Newtonian fluid (Oobleck), on top of which sits a layer of water (separated by a thin membrane to prevent mixing)

If I propagate a surface wave in the water layer how will it conduct itself at the Newtonian/Non Newtonian Fluid interface and into the Non Newtonian fluid

The thin membrane will cause additional effects; better to consider (for example) oobleck and vegetable oil; the oil is Newtonian and immiscible with oobleck (or a cornstarch solution if you prefer that).

Otherwise, I agree with Chestermiller- the system is too complex (nonlinear, for one) to make 'simple' predictions.
 
Thanks for your replys guys ! I'll ponder if another simpler scenario could answer my query
 
Tom79Tom said:
Suppose I have a wave tank partially filled with a shear thickening Newtonian fluid (Oobleck), on top of which sits a layer of water (separated by a thin membrane to prevent mixing)

If I propagate a surface wave in the water layer how will it conduct itself at the Newtonian/Non Newtonian Fluid interface and into the Non Newtonian fluid

Will it be an applied force upon the Non Newtonian fluid that causes shear thickening ? Will it cause reflection of the wave at the interface ?

I also notice that Oobleck has a higher density than water- will Snells law also apply and the surface wave will travel slower in the higher density medium
For water waves
"In water whose depth is large compared to the wavelength, the wave speed expression contains two terms, one for gravity effects and one for surface tension effects. The wave speed is
Waves-basic-terms_clip_image002_0000.gif

where g is the gravitational field strength, γ is the surface tension, ρ is the density of the water, and λ the wavelength. As this equation makes clear (wave speed depends on wavelength), water is a dispersive medium."
(http://practicalphysics.org/speed-water-waves.html) [I made a couple of obvious typo corrections spotted in the original quote above regarding the quantites in the equation ...]
I don't know if that can help. Perhaps it's not enough.
Tom79Tom said:
I also notice that Oobleck has a higher density than water- will Snells law also apply and the surface wave will travel slower in the higher density medium
Snell's law (of refraction) involves the angles of incidence and refraction. For surface waves (i.e. in 2 dim), you have to be more careful and specify the exact geometry. (Are we talking about surface waves at the same level, with the interface surface between the two media perpendicular? ...)
 

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