Not sure how to do this complex circuit

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding a complex circuit involving multiple resistors, specifically addressing the concept of shorted components and how to simplify the circuit for analysis. The scope includes conceptual clarification and technical reasoning related to circuit analysis.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to determine if the resistors are shorted and seeks simplification strategies for the circuit.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of understanding nodes and the addition of admittances in parallel, noting the presence of four 24-ohm resistors rather than two.
  • A participant explains that a resistor is considered shorted when the potential difference across it is zero, indicating that current bypasses the resistor through a connecting wire.
  • Further contributions suggest visualizing the circuit in a simplified manner and encourage redrawing it to aid in understanding.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the concept of a "short" and shares a video to clarify their understanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definitions and implications of shorted resistors, but there is no consensus on the best approach to simplify the circuit or the specific details of the circuit configuration.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference the need for a clearer understanding of circuit components and their relationships, but the discussion does not resolve all uncertainties regarding the circuit's configuration or the application of concepts discussed.

Who May Find This Useful

First-year students studying circuit analysis, individuals interested in electrical engineering concepts, and those seeking clarification on the principles of resistors and circuit simplification.

Unidan
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psVaNYU.jpg


My friend told me the 2 24 are shorted. How do I know these are shorted and b) what do I do do make this question simple?
 
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1. Have you studied yet what is a "node" ?
2. Have you studied that admittances in parallel add ?

3. I see four 24 ohm resistors not two.

4. How do you make the problem simple?
Look at it. Which of the resistors is shorted out by wires connecting its two ends ? Replace it (or them) with wire. Then it's just four resisitors (or admittances) in parallel.

Those are strong hints. If they do not make it obvious, repost in homework.
 
jim hardy said:
1. Have you studied yet what is a "node" ?
2. Have you studied that admittances in parallel add ?

3. I see four 24 ohm resistors not two.

4. How do you make the problem simple?
Look at it. Which of the resistors is shorted out by wires connecting its two ends ? Replace it (or them) with wire. Then it's just four resisitors (or admittances) in parallel.

Those are strong hints. If they do not make it obvious, repost in homework.

Thanks for your reply Jim!

1. Yes. A node is where 2 or more elements are connected to.

2. I have not. I am a first year student and this is only my 4th week at school.

3. Yes, my mistake.

4. This is where I am not understanding. What are you meaning by a "short" ? Here is a little video I made to explain what I mean: https://vid.me/2W3D
 
Last edited by a moderator:
A component is said to be shorted when potential difference across it becomes 0. Here, if the same wire is connecting both the ends of a resistor, the resistor is shorted. No current will flow through it. All the current flows through the wire, bypassing the resistor.Hence, it is replaced by a wire.
 
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A picture of what Mr cnh said

hujass1.jpg


AHA ! That diagonal 24 ohm resistor might as well not be there. It's two ends are connected by wire. So you could replace it by a wire. Or you could just erase it since (assuming no magnetic effects) no current flows through it.

Solid Geometry thought experiment time-- Imagining things is part of figuring out circuits.
Imagine that circuit actually built of wires and resistors in space, sitting on your tabletop.
It might look like a 1 inch cube shaped framework with resistors forming the vertical legs..
i see four dots in a plane at the top of that structure. Looks to me like they're a single 'node'.
ow about the bottom ?

Might be worth simplifying and re-drawing that circuit . That's how we solve complex circuits, simplifiy them one step at a time.
Can you redraw it in one plane instead of three dimensional ?
wow - a video ? You young folks are amazing. I fumble with Paint...

ps this is looking more and more like homework
and there is a homework forum and mentors might move it there -
i probably should have insisted on reposting there and following the rules
the rules exist to encourage orderly thinking
but you seem to be doing okay in that regard

keep on truckin' -

old jim
 

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