Nuclear Engineering - Grad School R.O.I.?

[Astronuc]

Just curious, can I student who is pursuing a masters in computer science with a research emphasis on CFD. Be able to do research in the area of Nuclear Engineering?. My background is as Bs in Compsc-math with almost all the course for a separate degree in Physics.

I believe it is possible to obtain a MS and then PhD in Nuclear Engineering even if one's degree is not in nuclear engineering. I seem to remember some grad students in that situation during my days in grad school.

Having said that, I would expect any department to require a student with a non-NE baccalaureate to take the appropriate courses in reactor physics and radiation physics. For a MS degree, one would be required to take an advance reactor physics course which would include reactor kinetics at a level over and above that in the baccalaureate program.

 

[Morbius]

While UTK and ORNL have a reputable nuclear engineering program, I'm not so sure about their nuclear physics program. Take note that there are only two large nuclear physics experimental facilities in the US - RHIC at BNL, and at Jefferson Lab.

ZapperZ,

How about the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory:

http://www.fnal.gov/

They still have the most powerful accelerator on the planet; although CERN has
plans to eclipse them.

Then there's new work being done at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Laboratory

http://www.slac.stanford.edu/

Dr. Gregory Greenman
Physicist

 

[nucdoc00]

I believe it is possible to obtain a MS and then PhD in Nuclear Engineering even if one's degree is not in nuclear engineering. I seem to remember some grad students in that situation during my days in grad school.

Having said that, I would expect any department to require a student with a non-NE baccalaureate to take the appropriate courses in reactor physics and radiation physics. For a MS degree, one would be required to take an advance reactor physics course which would include reactor kinetics at a level over and above that in the baccalaureate program.

That is right, astronuc. At UT Knoxville, where I'm going through this with an EE background, there is a 300 level "Intro to NE" course, plus the standard 400 level courses in reactor theory I and radiation protection (2 courses), and these count toward graduate credit. So it actually only amounts to 3 courses, and 2 of these can be used toward the MS, so are not truly additional courses. I have seen people with physics backgrounds as well as other types of engineering (like myself) do this without too much distress.

 

[ZapperZ]

ZapperZ,

How about the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory:

http://www.fnal.gov/

They still have the most powerful accelerator on the planet; although CERN has
plans to eclipse them.

Then there's new work being done at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Laboratory

http://www.slac.stanford.edu/

Dr. Gregory Greenman
Physicist

There is a "difference", at least in the eye of funding agencies, between "high energy physics" and "nuclear physics". FNAL and SLAC are both high energy physics facilities (at least SLAC for now until it is completely converted to be a light source with LCLS - so SLAC may not be much of high energy lab after this). Not all particle collider facilities are high energy facilities (RHIC and JeffLab). CERN is strictly a high-energy physics facility, not a nuclear physics facility.

So what's the difference between CERN/FNAL/SLAC and JeffLab/RHIC? The energy range, the particle being accelerated, and the physics being looked at. CERN/FNAL/SLAC accelerate and collide electrons or protons (and their antiparticles). RHIC and JeffLab accelerate and collide nucleons (gold, etc). There are many crossover in the physics, but technically (and politically), they are different. RHIC never looked for the Higgs, concentrating much on the quark-gluon soup, something the LHC at CERN isn't designed to even explore.

Zz.

 

[Morbius]

There is a "difference", at least in the eye of funding agencies, between "high energy physics" and "nuclear physics".

ZapperZ,

Yes - but do you know that our student in question isn't interested in "high energy"
physics?

nucdoc00 stated that he was interested in "...more fundamental research ...", which
could very well be "high energy" physics. You won't really find a "high energy" physics
department by name at a University. The field is taught - but it would be called
"nuclear physics" if not just "physics".

So - although nucdoc00 may say "nuclear physics" - he may very well mean what
is called "high energy" physics. I thought I'd present him with those options in case
that's what he really meant.

Independent of what the primary mission of the lab is - there are ample opportunities
in related fields. If one is interested in "transport theory"; an application of which is
radiation shielding - then a student may find a challenging project developing the
calculational methods to do shielding calculations for the high energy physics
machines - even though shielding is not the primary mission of the machine.

Dr. Gregory Greenman
Physicist

 

[ZapperZ]

ZapperZ,

Yes - but do you know that our student in question isn't interested in "high energy"
physics?

nucdoc00 stated that he was interested in "...more fundamental research ...", which
could very well be "high energy" physics. You won't really find a "high energy" physics
department by name at a University. The field is taught - but it would be called
"nuclear physics" if not just "physics".

Maybe we both read the wrong thing. I read this post:

Your comments are helpful. In fact, the appeal of studying NE for me is in the nuclear physics (does that come off as sounding highly self-evident? ).

[my bold]

.. and draw the conclusion that this person is more interested in nuclear physics than nuclear engineering. High energy physics doesn't even enter the picture here, at least when I made my comments about RHIC and JeffLab.

One may not find "high energy physics" by "name" as an undergraduate major (nor can you find other sub-fields of physics), but you certainly go into a particular field when you go into graduate school. Unless I missed something, we ARE talking about graduate programs here, aren't we?

So - although nucdoc00 may say "nuclear physics" - he may very well mean what
is called "high energy" physics. I thought I'd present him with those options in case
that's what he really meant.

Er... since this is a "nuclear engineering" forum, if he really meant "high energy physics", then his aim is not only atrocious, he missed the whole planet, especially when there is clearly a forum dedicated to such a subject matter (high energy/particle physics) listed close to the top of the list. One has to make an effort to scroll down and find a "nuclear enginnering" forum.

Independent of what the primary mission of the lab is - there are ample opportunities
in related fields. If one is interested in "transport theory"; an application of which is
radiation shielding - then a student may find a challenging project developing the
calculational methods to do shielding calculations for the high energy physics
machines - even though shielding is not the primary mission of the machine.

And that is also not a high energy physics subject matter. The issue of shielding is usually taken up by "health physics". While high energy physicists and accelerator physicists need to know some kind of shielding, we have to refer to health physicists for our radiation safety training and requirements that conform to OSHA's standards. So neither nuclear physicists nor high energy physicists are experts in this.

Zz.

 

[nucdoc00]

From your "student in question"--

Let's see if I can clear this up succinctly for you gentlemen. No, I didn't mean "high energy physics", though I appreciate Morbius providing the options. Yes, I am pursuing graduate studies in nuclear engineering. This thread is titled "Nuclear Engineering - Grad School R.O.I?" I therefore don't believe I have put forth any "atrocious" aims or have missed any planets here, ZapperZ (was I just zapped??) Yes, I would have selected a different forum had that been my intent. Nuclear engineering involves nuclear physics, and I enjoy nuclear physics. I am not indicating any preference toward the field of nuclear physics over nuclear engineering. By "fundamental research" I mean research that is, well, more fundamental. Transport theory and radiation detection do sound interesting to me. And sufficiently fundamental. A PhD nuclear engineer who takes a job as a medical physicist and performs clinical research designing treatment protocols for oncology patients would not be doing what I would consider "fundamental" research. The same would apply to some of the commercial application/product driven type research (although not entirely). "Health physics" doesn't sound terribly interesting. Not sure about the fundamentality factor. I think my use of the word "fundamental" was misleading and vague in my original post. It very well could have been referring to high energy physics or any number of things.

Thanks for the lively and thoughtful responses.

 

[ZapperZ]

Let's see if I can clear this up succinctly for you gentlemen. No, I didn't mean "high energy physics", though I appreciate Morbius providing the options. Yes, I am pursuing graduate studies in nuclear engineering. This thread is titled "Nuclear Engineering - Grad School R.O.I?" I therefore don't believe I have put forth any "atrocious" aims or have missed any planets here, ZapperZ (was I just zapped??)

I didn't think you had an atrocious aim, because I took it at face value that you WERE aiming for nuclear engineering/nuclear physics. I was just explaining to Morbius that it would be highly unlikely for someone to aim that poorly and missed a more obvious and relevant forum to end up in a nuclear enginnering forum.

However, it does appear that you misleading in indicating that you were more interested in the "nuclear physics" aspect. From what you have described, those areas are certainly more alligned with the nuclear engineering subject matter rather than nuclear physics. Again, if you look very closely at the specific content of a nuclear physics program and research subject matter, I don't think you'll find a match with what you wanted to do based on your description.

Zz.

 

[creepypasta13]

Just curious, can I student who is pursuing a masters in computer science with a research emphasis on CFD. Be able to do research in the area of Nuclear Engineering?. My background is as Bs in Compsc-math with almost all the course for a separate degree in Physics.

Sounds like me except I want to get my MS in aerospace or mechanical. Can I also do research in NE?

Yes, and Yes! I think anyone doing engineering these days need a basic understanding of FEA and CFD, the latter being essentially applications of FEA to Fluid Mechanics/Dynamics.

.

Is it possible to find NE-related work doing lots of FEA and CFD?

I want theoretical, "hard core" stuff with plenty of math, physics, and computational work. My goal would be academics--research & teaching ideally.

Me too

I would recommend getting an MS degree in Nuclear Engineering if that is the discipline in which you will practice.

What area of interest in nuclear might also dictate where you go for grad school or work. Some places have strong programs in heat transfer and fluid mechanics,

what are some good grad programs in NE specializing in heat transfer and fluid mechanics? How are they used in NE? As I said earlier, is it possible to get my MS in aerospace or mechanical but then find a job in NE?

 

[Astronuc]

Sounds like me except I want to get my MS in aerospace or mechanical. Can I also do research in NE?

Is it possible to find NE-related work doing lots of FEA and CFD?

Me too

what are some good grad programs in NE specializing in heat transfer and fluid mechanics? How are they used in NE? As I said earlier, is it possible to get my MS in aerospace or mechanical but then find a job in NE?

Yes - for example here's a paper at an upcoming conference

Evaluating PWR Fuel Performance Using Vessel CFD Analysis
http://www.fuel.ans.org/fuel10/program/abstracts/17.html

FEM/FEA is heavily used in fuel design/analysis.

Basically components are designed with CAD/CAE system, and the components and assemblies are then passed to FEA/CFD codes for analysis.