What Is the Cardinality of Nested Power Sets?

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The discussion focuses on understanding the cardinality of nested power sets, specifically starting with the null set. The first two answers provided are correct: the cardinality of P(∅) is 1, and P(P(∅)) is 2. However, there is confusion regarding P(P(P(∅))), with an incorrect assertion of cardinality 3. It is clarified that the cardinality of a power set is always a power of 2, leading to the conclusion that P({∅, {∅}}) has a cardinality of 4. The discussion concludes with an explanation of how to prove the cardinality of power sets using combinatorial reasoning and induction.
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Homework Statement



I'm having a little bit of trouble grasping the idea of null sets and power sets. Please check my answers to the following questions:

Determine the cardinality:

a. P(\oslash)
b. P(P(\oslash))
c. P(P(P(\oslash)))

Homework Equations



n/a

The Attempt at a Solution



a. since the set in question is the null set, the answer is {\oslash} - cardinality 1
b. since the set in question is the set that contains the null set, the answer is {\oslash,{\oslash}} - cardinality 2
c. Now this is one that I'm starting to have trouble with. I can simplify the problem to P({\oslash,{\oslash}}). My answer is: {\oslash,{\oslash},{\oslash,{\oslash}}} - cardinality 3.

Is that right, or am I missing something?
 
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Hi battousai! :smile:

battousai said:

Homework Statement



I'm having a little bit of trouble grasping the idea of null sets and power sets. Please check my answers to the following questions:

Determine the cardinality:

a. P(\oslash)
b. P(P(\oslash))
c. P(P(P(\oslash)))


Homework Equations



n/a

The Attempt at a Solution



a. since the set in question is the null set, the answer is {\oslash} - cardinality 1
b. since the set in question is the set that contains the null set, the answer is {\oslash,{\oslash}} - cardinality 2

Correct!

c. Now this is one that I'm starting to have trouble with. I can simplify the problem to P({\oslash,{\oslash}}). My answer is: {\oslash,{\oslash},{\oslash,{\oslash}}} - cardinality 3.

If I have difficulty in seeing things, I introduce some variables. Let's do that here. Put A=\emptyset,~~B=\{\emptyset\}[/tex].<br /> Then the question asks you to find P({A,B}), can you do that?<br /> <br /> Hint: to see immediately if an answer is right or wrong: the cardinality of a power set is <b>always</b> a power of 2. In particular, if X has n elements, then |P(X)|=2<sup>n</sup>.
 
micromass said:
Hi battousai! :smile:
Correct!
If I have difficulty in seeing things, I introduce some variables. Let's do that here. Put A=\emptyset,~~B=\{\emptyset\}[/tex].<br /> Then the question asks you to find P({A,B}), can you do that?
<br /> <br /> Hm, I get cardinality 4 when I do it with A and B. Now when we go back to the original elements, what would be the elements of the power set?<br /> <br /> \oslash , {\oslash}, {{\oslash}}, {\oslash,{\oslash}}<br /> <br /> Is that answer correct now?<br /> <br /> <blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="micromass" data-source="post: 3348534" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> micromass said: </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Hint: to see immediately if an answer is right or wrong: the cardinality of a power set is <b>always</b> a power of 2. In particular, if X has n elements, then |P(X)|=2<sup>n</sup>. </div> </div> </blockquote><br /> That&#039;s neat! How does one prove that?
 
battousai said:
Hm, I get cardinality 4 when I do it with A and B. Now when we go back to the original elements, what would be the elements of the power set?

\oslash , {\oslash}, {{\oslash}}, {\oslash,{\oslash}}

Is that answer correct now?

That's good!

That's neat! How does one prove that?

Hmm, I hope you know something of combinatorics. You can form an arbitrary subset of X by choosing for each element of X whether that element belongs to X or not. For example, the subset {0} of {0,1} is formed by deciding that 0 is in the subset and that 1 is not.
So, for each element, we have 2 choices: in the subset or not. So in total, we have 2*2*2*...*2=2n possibilities! So that's the size of the power set!
 
I don't know much about combinatorics, but that explanation makes sense. Thanks!
 
You can also prove that if |A|= n, then |P(A)|= 2n by induction on n. If A is empty, |A|= 0, then P(A) contains only the empty set, as you showed, so |P(A)|= 1= 20.

If A is not empty, let x be a specific member of A. There exist two kinds of subsets of A- those that contain x and those that do not. A, with x removed, has n-1 members so there are 2n-1 subsets of A that do not contain x. But every subset of A that does contain x is just a subset of A that does not contain x union {x}. That is, there are also 2n-1 subsets of A that do contain x. The total of all subsets of A is 2n-1+ 2n-1= 2(2n-1)= 2n.
 
I tried to combine those 2 formulas but it didn't work. I tried using another case where there are 2 red balls and 2 blue balls only so when combining the formula I got ##\frac{(4-1)!}{2!2!}=\frac{3}{2}## which does not make sense. Is there any formula to calculate cyclic permutation of identical objects or I have to do it by listing all the possibilities? Thanks
Since ##px^9+q## is the factor, then ##x^9=\frac{-q}{p}## will be one of the roots. Let ##f(x)=27x^{18}+bx^9+70##, then: $$27\left(\frac{-q}{p}\right)^2+b\left(\frac{-q}{p}\right)+70=0$$ $$b=27 \frac{q}{p}+70 \frac{p}{q}$$ $$b=\frac{27q^2+70p^2}{pq}$$ From this expression, it looks like there is no greatest value of ##b## because increasing the value of ##p## and ##q## will also increase the value of ##b##. How to find the greatest value of ##b##? Thanks
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