Optics: refractive index and dielectric constant

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the refractive index and the dielectric constant of water, particularly in the context of visible wavelengths and room temperature. Participants explore the discrepancies between theoretical calculations and experimental measurements, as well as the frequency dependence of the dielectric constant.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the calculation of the refractive index of water using the equation n=sqrt(epsilon*mu), noting a significant discrepancy between the calculated value (8.94) and the measured value (1.33).
  • Another participant points out that the dielectric constant of water is frequency-dependent, being 80 for static fields but much lower (around 1.78) for optical frequencies.
  • A further contribution clarifies that for crystals, the dielectric constant remains relatively stable across frequencies, while for liquids like water, molecular movements significantly affect the static permittivity.
  • One participant requests a reference for the lower dielectric constant value at optical frequencies and seeks additional information on dielectric constants for water and silica in the visible range, as well as the refractive index of SF6 gas at standard temperature and pressure.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the frequency dependence of the dielectric constant, but the discussion includes multiple perspectives on how this affects the refractive index calculations, leaving some aspects unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the limitations of using static dielectric constant values for dynamic optical applications and the need for frequency-specific data.

ivas
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Dear all,
i am a bit confused with a very simple equation connecting refractive index of water and its dielectric constant for visible range of wavelengths and room temperature.

i hope, You can help me

as we know, the refractive index 'n' can be defined as

n=sqrt(epsilon*mu), (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refractive_index)

where 'epsilon' is material's dielectric constant (or material's relative permittivity) and 'mu' is its relative permeability.

for water we have:
mu is almost 1, epsilon=80 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_constant)

it means that (using the equation above) the refractive index of water is n=sqrt(80)=8.94, but the measured refractive index of water at room temperature is about 1.33 (http://www.ps.missouri.edu/rickspage/refract/refraction.html, http://www.cargille.com/certwater.shtml) .

Thus, refractive index computed from the equation is not the same and not near to its experimental quantity.

Where is my fault?
Thanks
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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The dielectric constant depends strongly on the frequency of the applied field. While the dielectric constant of water is 80 for a static field, it is much lower for optical frequencies (around 1.78, according to one reference I found).
 
Doc Al said:
The dielectric constant depends strongly on the frequency of the applied field. While the dielectric constant of water is 80 for a static field, it is much lower for optical frequencies (around 1.78, according to one reference I found).

Thanks,
i agree, :rolleyes:
 
For crystals, the dielectric constant does generally not change too much with measurement frequency (if temperatrue is not high), and thus the equation still gets along with the low frequency values of permittivity. But for liquids, molecular movements (or dipole reorientation) have a dominant (say to be excess) contribution to static permittivity. In this case, only the high frequency value of permittivity follows the equation.
 
Last edited:
Doc Al said:
The dielectric constant depends strongly on the frequency of the applied field. While the dielectric constant of water is 80 for a static field, it is much lower for optical frequencies (around 1.78, according to one reference I found).

I was wondering if you could give me a link to that reference.

I am also looking for values for the dielectric constant for water and silica (SiO2) in the visible. Any suggestions where I could find them?

Lastly, a little aside...I am also struggling to find the refractive index of SF6 gas at std T and P, or at RT (~20C-30C), any suggestions?

Thank you in advance
 

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