Orientation of Lowest Energy Photons from Hydrogen

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the orientation of photons emitted by hydrogen atoms, specifically focusing on the lowest energy photons. Participants explore the relationship between the direction of photon travel and the orbital axis of electrons, touching on concepts from quantum mechanics and atomic theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the concept of "orientation" of photons, suggesting that modern atomic theory lacks defined orbital axes, which complicates the notion of photon orientation.
  • Another participant proposes that the lowest energy wave function for a hydrogen electron oscillates through the nucleus, potentially defining an orientation that could influence experimental results.
  • A different viewpoint asserts that the orientation of emitted photons is indeterminate, with the direction only becoming clear upon measuring the atom's recoil, leading to a range of possible directions upon repeated experiments.
  • One participant explains that photon emission occurs during transitions between energy states, with the angular momentum of the atom influencing the likelihood of photons being emitted in certain directions.
  • Concerns are raised about the unpredictability of experimental phenomena and the ongoing development of new theories in physics, questioning the overall understanding of these concepts.
  • Another participant argues that while quantum mechanics predicts probabilities rather than certainties, the fundamental laws of physics are well understood, contrasting with the uncertainty expressed by others.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the concept of photon orientation and the predictability of experimental outcomes. There is no consensus on the understanding of these phenomena, with some asserting clarity in quantum mechanics while others highlight ongoing uncertainties.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the lack of defined orbital axes in modern atomic theory and the implications of this for understanding photon orientation. The discussion also reflects on the complexities and uncertainties inherent in quantum mechanics and experimental physics.

HarryWertM
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What is the orientation of a photon emitted by an atom? By orientation, I mean the direction of the photon's travel relative to the orbital axis of the electron. Consider only the lowest energy photons from Hydrogen atoms. I am sure I would not understand anything more complex.
 
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OK, my own best answer... There are no "planar" orbits in modern atomic theory which might - might, as far as I know - be the "standing wave model" in which there is no way to define an orbital axis and thus no orientation for an emitted photon.

This leaves much for a civilian to wonder about. In particular, I read somewhere - don't ask where - that the lowest energy wave function for a hydrogen electron oscillates back and forth directly through the nucleus. This obviously defines an orientation which in turn might define some experimental observables for photon absorption. Like in frozen hydrogen? What kinds of results can be predicted if a sample of frozen hydrogen is zapped in the new attosecond x-ray laser at SLAC?

Behind this particular subject is the more sense of just how much "reality" there is in modern physics. There seems no end to experimental phenomena of uncertain predictability as well as no end to new theories. Does anybody really understand anything?
 
HarryWertM said:
What is the orientation of a photon emitted by an atom? By orientation, I mean the direction of the photon's travel relative to the orbital axis of the electron. Consider only the lowest energy photons from Hydrogen atoms. I am sure I would not understand anything more complex.
There isn't, it's indeterminate. If you measure the atom's recoil, *then* you can say that the photon took the opposite direction (entanglement), but with many repetitions of the experiment you would find all possible directions.
 
Photons get emitted when electrons in atoms transition from higher energy states to lower energy states. There are many different transitions an atom can undergo depending on which energy state it starts in. Photons emitted in a given transition are more likely to go in some directions than others. As you note, for one direction to be more probable than another requires something to pick out a special direction--this is done by the angular momentum of the atom, which points in a certain direction (even though the electrons don't have well-defined "orbits").

HarryWertM said:
There seems no end to experimental phenomena of uncertain predictability as well as no end to new theories. Does anybody really understand anything?

Quantum mechanics is very well understood. It simply predicts probabilities instead of certainties when you measure certain quantities, and gives mathematical reasons why this is the best you can do. Certainly there are plenty of theories about many poorly-understood phenomena, but as http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/09/23/the-laws-underlying-the-physics-of-everyday-life-are-completely-understood/" points out, "the laws underlying the physics of everyday life are completely understood."
 
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