Osmotic pressure, question on derivation (TD)

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter nossren
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Derivation Pressure
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of osmotic pressure in the context of thermodynamics, specifically focusing on a paper that provides a thermodynamic explanation. Participants are examining the mathematical steps involved in the derivation, particularly the transition from one equation to another using Taylor series expansion.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the transition from equation (11) to (12) in the paper, indicating a lack of understanding regarding the derivation process.
  • Another participant explains that the author uses a Taylor series expansion to linearize the expression, suggesting that terms of higher order in v/V are dropped.
  • A request for further elaboration on the Taylor expansion is made, indicating a need for clarification on the mathematical concept.
  • A participant provides a brief overview of the Taylor expansion, emphasizing the replacement of 1/(1 + v/V) with 1 - v/V under the assumption that v is much smaller than V.
  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the denominator in the derivation, suggesting that their calculations lead to an unexpected form.
  • Another participant offers a method to simplify the denominator, indicating a potential pathway to resolve the confusion.
  • A later reply indicates that after applying the suggested simplifications, the participant arrives at a form that still includes a term they do not understand how to eliminate.
  • A participant bumps the thread, indicating ongoing confusion and a desire for further assistance, while also correcting a previous notation regarding the exponent in their expression.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants appear to have differing levels of understanding regarding the application of Taylor series and the specific steps in the derivation. There is no consensus on how to resolve the confusion surrounding the denominator and the resulting expressions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations in understanding the Taylor expansion and its application in this context are evident. Some participants may be missing foundational knowledge in calculus, which affects their ability to follow the derivation steps.

nossren
Messages
23
Reaction score
0
I'm currently reading about thermodynamics and osmosis and I happened to stumble across this paper. There is one thing I don't really understand, though.. In chapter 8 the author wishes to give a thermodynamic explanation of the osmotic pressure so I've been reading through the derivation. When calculating the thermodynamic probability W (page 20), how do I go from (11) to (12)?

http://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0305/0305011.pdf
 
Physics news on Phys.org
since v/V is small, the author expanded the expression in a Taylor series expansion and dropped any terms that are quadratic (or higher powers) in v/V, keeping only the independent and linear terms. This is called linearizing the equation - a very common device.
 
Would you mind elaborating on the taylor expansion?
 
a Taylor expansion is an expansion of a function in a power series. It is taught in calculus class. All you need here is the fact that 1/(1 + v/V) can be replaced with 1 - v/V when v << V. Do that and collect all the linear terms. For instance

(1+v/V)(1+2v/V)(1+3v/V) = 1 + (1+2+3) v/V + ...

where the dots represent quadratic or higher terms that were dropped from the equation.
 
I'm still not following. I solved it for the numerator, which yielded 1-(1+2+3+...)v/V. By reverse engineering (12), the denominator must be 1-v/V_0. But since the numerator was divided by V to obtain 1-v/V the denominator must too. How do I solve it for the denominator?

$$
V_0/V - v/V
$$
 
Last edited:
As I said, you can replace 1/(V0 - nv) = (1/V0)1/(1 - nv/V0) with (1/V0)(1 + nv/V0).
 
I did that, and now I get (after dropping higher power terms)
$$
(V/V_0)^{n-1} \cdot (1 - v/V + v/V_0 -2v/V + 2v/V_0 - ...) = (V/V_0)^{n-1} \cdot (1 - (1+2+3+...)v/V + (1+2+3+...)v/V_0)
$$
which leaves me with a (V/V_0)^(n-1) in front of the wanted expression. I don't see how to get around this.
 
bump

also meant to say (V/V_0)^n
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
4K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 50 ·
2
Replies
50
Views
12K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 58 ·
2
Replies
58
Views
5K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
410
  • Sticky
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
13K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
478