Pair production question - photon to electron/positron

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a pair production problem involving a photon transforming into an electron-positron pair. Participants are examining the conservation of energy and momentum in this context, particularly focusing on the implications of the energy threshold of 1.02 MeV for the photon and the resulting momentum of the particles produced.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the equations for conservation of energy and momentum, with some expressing confusion about how to apply these principles given the limited information. There are attempts to derive relationships between energy and momentum, with references to rest energy and kinetic energy of the produced particles.

Discussion Status

Some participants have offered guidance on writing down the relevant equations, while others are struggling with the application of these concepts, particularly in the context of relativistic effects. There is an ongoing exploration of the relationships between energy, momentum, and mass, with no clear consensus on the next steps.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the challenge of working with the assumption that the electron and positron have negligible momentum compared to their rest energy, and there is mention of the complexity introduced by relativistic speeds. The original poster expresses frustration over the lack of information to determine the momentum accurately.

Brianrofl
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Homework Statement


http://puu.sh/brbpb/3c7573fa32.png


Homework Equations


E = (mc^2 +K + mc^2 + K)
P = E/c
E = mc^2

The Attempt at a Solution



The book says that the momentum/kinetic energy of the electron and positron produced in a pair production is so small that it can be assumed that the electron only holds rest energy.

I just don't know. The question states that they have momentum, but how am I supposed to find that when I'm given so little information? All I know is that the photon has at least 1.02MeV, but how am I supposed to know how much extra energy went towards increasing the electron's momentum?

Thanks.
 
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Why don't you start by doing what the hint says? Write down the equations for conservation of energy and momentum.
 
vela said:
Why don't you start by doing what the hint says? Write down the equations for conservation of energy and momentum.

I've gone through so much scratch paper and just can't get it.


Momentum equation:

Initial electron is at rest, has no momentum

Three electrons have same momentum afterwards.

P = 3mv
P = E/c, so
E = 3cmv

Energy conservation equation - third electron has kinetic energy now, but rest energy not included since it was not created by the photon.

E = (mec^2 + K) + (mec^2 + K) + K

3cmv = 2mec^2+3k

And from there I just get a ton of ridiculous values for v
 
Brianrofl said:
I've gone through so much scratch paper and just can't get it.Momentum equation:

Initial electron is at rest, has no momentum

Three electrons have same momentum afterwards.

P = 3mv
This isn't correct. At relativistic speeds, ##p\ne mv##.

P = E/c, so
This is only true for massless particles.

E = 3cmv

Energy conservation equation - third electron has kinetic energy now, but rest energy not included since it was not created by the photon.

E = (mec^2 + K) + (mec^2 + K) + K
This is okay, but I would say
$$ E_\gamma + m_ec^2 = 3E_e$$ where ##E_\gamma## is the energy of the photon and ##E_e## is the energy of an electron or positron in the final state.

With relativity problems, it's easier to work with energy and momentum. Once you have solved for those, you can then find velocities if needed. (Note that you don't need to find the velocity in this problem.)

It's also useful to use the relationship ##E^2 - (pc)^2 = (mc^2)^2##. For an electron or positron, you'd have ##E_e^2 - (p_ec)^2 = (m_ec^2)^2##. (So you can see that E/c isn't equal to p for the electron.) A photon's invariant mass is 0, so the relationship reduces to ##E_\gamma^2 = (p_\gamma c)^2## or ##E_\gamma = \lvert p \rvert c##.

3cmv = 2mec^2+3k

And from there I just get a ton of ridiculous values for v
 

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