News Palin pick an insult to our intelligence

[LowlyPion]

According to the current mayor, there is no evidence that anyone was ever charged for a rape kit in Wasilla during Palin's administration or that Governor Palin ever supported this policy:

http://www.cityofwasilla.com/index.aspx?page=136

Please provide an actual link to the specific assertion that none was ever charged. Linking generally to Wasilla documents is not considered good form.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Not entirely true. The Constitution (Article VI, Clause 2) supersedes state and local authority in respect to such things as the Establishment clause.

In this regards the States or Counties are not free to introduce Faith Based Science into ANY public school. On the other side of things Private Schools are exempted and protected in such syllabi by the Free Exercise Clause.

Yipes! Yes indeed, I was thinking of private schools. States schools are still bound by the separation of Church and State.

 

[LowlyPion]

... how do we regard things like global warming alarmism, for example...do we also need to completely ban any and all talk of environmental catastrophe from global warming as many children are being taught in the schools today... (for example some schools showing children Al Gore's film).

I'm not saying environmentalism or global warming are not scientific, but much of the climate change fearmongering I would say is akin to the "End Times" fearmongering certain folks on the Right engage in.

You careen recklessly between things that are not related. There is nothing faith based about examining global climatological data and refining models that attempt to anticipate trends in evidence we have before us.

Also, even though one may disagree with creationism, what about discussing the flaws of the theory of evolution, and the alternatives, and what is wrong with them all...? This I understand is different than actually "teaching" creationism itself though.

Unfortunately for your point, creationism and its attempted resurrection under the guise of "Intelligent design" don't offer any scientific insight into evolution and natural selection.

Discuss it all you want at a Bible College.

The big concern here is that Palin would stand to permit such unscientific discussion and impose upon those that don't share your faith based beliefs a discussion of non-science under the guise of science in public school settings - which as it turns out is a violation of the Establishment Clause.

 

[WheelsRCool]

Now, you should note that she did NOT kill the project, as she claims over and over again. She stopped cheerleading for it, but left it alive, and it is STILL alive, with many bridges and alternate ferry lines still in active planning. I can supply links from AK DOT documents (and have in other posts) if you are dead-set on pushing Palin's lies in this thread.

How is the bridge still "alive?" Killing the "Bridge to Nowhere" I wouldn't think means ending all infrastructure projects. She also enacted the second largest cut to the construction budget in the state's history.

The McCain website also has some information on it: http://www.johnmccain.com/McCainReport/Read.aspx?guid=ab24d6d6-f796-4851-99ac-451d7567a5cc

Palin never gave back any of the money for the bridge that she claims to have said "no thanks" to, but kept it all, and kept the project alive and running. Politicians lie - some just lie bigger and better than others.

From what I understand, the earmark was part of the 2005 Transportation Bill that was funded by gasoline taxes and not funded by general revenue. Federal gas tax revenues are returned to the states via the various transportation bills passed by Congress. If this is the case, the revenue that Palin “refused to return to Washington” was made up of Federal gas taxes paid by Alaskans. It did not “belong” to Washington.

That is not the purpose of high school/elementary. At that age children do not have enough knowledge to debate scientific topics. The purpose of high school science class is to give children a broad basis in the accepted scientific theories. Once they have earned a university degree (or two, or three) in biology, then they will be qualified to ``debate things with each other''.

But says who though...? So by your standard, unless you have no degree in biology, you should just take scientists at their word and not question anything they say...? One doesn't need a college degree to debate things necessarily.

I can understand giving students the accepted scientific theories, but I see nothing wrong with encouraging debate; in my high school chemistry class, the teacher even said to us, "So are you guys just going to take my word about all this stuff on protons, neutrons, electrons, and so forth...? Do you REALLY believe this stuff?" He wanted us to think critically about it.

Of course, the public school system isn't designed to produce critical thinkers, it is based off of the Prussian system, which was designed to produce soldiers and employees.

Care to provide some examples or references to back up this claim?

Lamarckism for microorganisms.

This is a totally false statement ipso facto, if it is a woman's choice.

Who says it is a woman's choice though? On the one hand, you can say the embyro is just some cells, no different than a peanut. On the other hand, you can say that it is the beginning of a human life, and as such has rights. Two different ways of seeing it (not saying I agree 100% with either).

To prohibit the choice is the imposition of the determination of intrinsic value. It is not your choice to impose on a woman.

I both agree and disagree, if that makes any sense (I don't think it is anyone's choice to impose on the woman, but I also think the state shouldn't determine whether an embryo is a human life or not either).

It's a rather inconsistent notion compared to your desire for state's rights over Federal Authority.

The folks who want Roe v. Wade overturned want the states to determine individually whether abortion should be legal or not (not saying I support this view).

Please provide an actual link to the specific assertion that none was ever charged. Linking generally to Wasilla documents is not considered good form.

Sorry about that, click on the link "City Documents - Recently Requested - Former Mayor Palin," then click the PDF: "Billing of sexual assault victims for forensic exams"

 

[WheelsRCool]

You careen recklessly between things that are not related. There is nothing faith based about examining global climatological data and refining models that attempt to anticipate trends in evidence we have before us.

That isn't what they teach about climate change in elementary school.

Unfortunately for your point, creationism and its attempted resurrection under the guise of "Intelligent design" don't offer any scientific insight into evolution and natural selection.

Discuss it all you want at a Bible College.

It is this mindset that can lead to some of the most horrendous blunders in knowledge throughout history. No matter how ludicrous an alternative explanation may sound, you should always allow discussion of both views so people can think critically about them.

The big concern here is that Palin would stand to permit such unscientific discussion and impose upon those that don't share your faith based beliefs a discussion of non-science under the guise of science in public school settings - which as it turns out is a violation of the Establishment Clause.

I have no such faith-based beliefs; I believe in evolution; I do not understand how anyone could really believe in creationism or intelligent design, even if they are a staunch religious person. I'm just making a point.

Governor Palin has shown that she will not push for creationist teachings in the educational system though.

 

[LowlyPion]

According to the current mayor, there is no evidence that anyone was ever charged for a rape kit in Wasilla during Palin's administration or that Governor Palin ever supported this policy:

http://www.cityofwasilla.com/index.aspx?page=136

That's proof of nothing but compliance with Alaska Statutes Title18, Chapter68, Section 40. The statistics cited are for only the last 2 years she was Mayor, not the first 4.

Since you are interested in spading over Palin's record of instituting Right Wing Faith Agendas, are you suggesting that Wasilla Police Chief Charlie Fannon whom Palin installed in office on her becoming Mayor is lying, when he said: "In the past we’ve charged the cost of exams to the victims insurance company when possible. I just don't want to see any more burden put on the taxpayer" ?

The article in the Frontiersman goes on to say:

According to Fannon, the new law will cost the Wasilla Police Department approximately $5,000 to $14,000 a year to collect evidence for sexual assault cases.

Your citation is at best disingenuous.

 

[LowlyPion]

It is this mindset that can lead to some of the most horrendous blunders in knowledge throughout history. No matter how ludicrous an alternative explanation may sound, you should always allow discussion of both views so people can think critically about them.

No one is stifling free speech, nor are they interfering in the practice of anyone's Religion. The proscribed activity is mixing faith based pseudo-science within the context of Science. I see no advantage that accrues to a free society if Faith based fallible Ignorance is encouraged in schools as a matter of public policy.

Governor Palin has shown that she will not push for creationist teachings in the educational system though.

With her stretching of the Truth in so many other areas, I choose not to believe that in the slightest. The fact that she expresses satisfaction with it being discussed, exhibits Ignorance of the Constitution and an apparent readiness to cast it aside to suit her faith based beliefs.

 

[turbo]

How is the bridge still "alive?" Killing the "Bridge to Nowhere" I wouldn't think means ending all infrastructure projects. She also enacted the second largest cut to the construction budget in the state's history.

The bridge to nowhere project is still alive and I have linked official statements to AK DOT officials. You have done nothing except flail around and proffer unsubstantiated GOP blather. Please start offering real substantive references to back up your claims.

 

[WheelsRCool]

That's proof of nothing but compliance with Alaska Statutes Title18, Chapter68, Section 40. The statistics cited are for only the last 2 years she was Mayor, not the first 4.

But it says that they did a PD review too and came up empty:

"A review of files and case reports within the Wasilla Police Department has found no record of sexual assault victims billed for forensic exams."

Since you are interested in spading over Palin's record of instituting Right Wing Faith Agendas, are you suggesting that Wasilla Police Chief Charlie Fannon whom Palin installed in office on her becoming Mayor is lying, when he said: "In the past we’ve charged the cost of exams to the victims insurance company when possible. I just don't want to see any more burden put on the taxpayer" ?

Yes, but he also said the following: "Ultimately it is the criminal who should bear the burden of the added costs;" “The forensic exam is just one part of the equation;" “I’d like to see the courts make these people pay restitution for these things.” http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2000/05/23/news.txt

What it seems is he wanted to have the criminals pay the bill and not the state, but he went about it in a poor manner. He was having the victim or state provide the money for the kit and then they would go after the criminal in court. However no person was ever charged from what I can see. I do not think Palin was aware of this; it was 100% the call of the Chief. He needed to cut some budget items so he cut funding for rape kits roughly in half, but they were still paid out from what I can see.

No one is stifling free speech, nor are they interfering in the practice of anyone's Religion. The proscribed activity is mixing faith based pseudo-science within the context of Science. I see no advantage that accrues to a free society if Faith based fallible Ignorance is encouraged in schools as a matter of public policy.

I agree; my main point I guess is just always to encourage students to be critical. There was a previous thread here where it was mentioned that evolution is like gravity, we know it exists, it's just "how" it functions that is questioned. But sometimes there are pieces of knowledge that will "seem" to be pure common sense, even to the brightest minds, that later turn out to be wrong.

With her stretching of the Truth in so many other areas, I choose not to believe that in the slightest. The fact that she expresses satisfaction with it being discussed, exhibits Ignorance of the Constitution and an apparent readiness to cast it aside to suit her faith based beliefs.

From what I can see, all she has said is that she would like creationary theory taught alongside evolution, but never pushed the Alaska State Board of Education to teach it at all.

Also, she has said that if Roe v. Wade was overturned, it isn't the governor's job to ban anything outright, it would be up to the people to discuss: http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Sarah_Palin_Abortion.htm

She is against same-sex marriage, but abides by the Alaska State Constitution: http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Sarah_Palin_Civil_Rights.htm

So I from what I can tell she wouldn't "cast the Constitution aside" for her beliefs (and I myself don't agree with them all). She will abide by what the Constitution says and the people want.

Senator Obama's views towards the Second Amendment I do not agree with, which I think are based partially on beliefs (though not necessarily religious) for him as well: http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm

Both candidates have flaws.

The bridge to nowhere project is still alive and I have linked official statements to AK DOT officials. You have done nothing except flail around and proffer unsubstantiated GOP blather. Please start offering real substantive references to back up your claims.

According to your link, the Bridge to Nowhere project itself is dead. What is alive is the push to link Ketchikan to its airport via an alternative means, which was what Governor Palin said she supported upon ending the Bridge to Nowhere project:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20908207/

Also ironic is it seems the Alaska Democratic Party credited her for ending the bridge as well: http://www.retireted.com/category/real-estate/gravina-bridge/

This article talks about her vetoing a lot: http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB122100927525717663.html

I agree though that the wording she used regarding the bridge could have been better. The way she worded it, the answer to the question "Did Governor Palin kill the Bridge to Nowhere project?" would have been a solid yes, whereas really it's more a, "Weelllll, yes, but..."

I think it is incorrect to say that she "loves pork" though.

 

[turbo]

According to your link, the Bridge to Nowhere project itself is dead. What is alive is the push to link Ketchikan to its airport via an alternative means, which was what Governor Palin said she supported upon ending the Bridge to Nowhere project:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20908207/

Also ironic is it seems the Alaska Democratic Party credited her for ending the bridge as well: http://www.retireted.com/category/real-estate/gravina-bridge/

This article talks about her vetoing a lot: http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB122100927525717663.html

I agree though that the wording she used regarding the bridge could have been better. The way she worded it, the answer to the question "Did Governor Palin kill the Bridge to Nowhere project?" would have been a solid yes, whereas really it's more a, "Weelllll, yes, but..."

I think it is incorrect to say that she "loves pork" though.

The Bridge project is still alive and well, and the original bridge is still one of the bridges under consideration in the $97M planning project. Just look at the AK DOT map that I linked - again, look at the date on that map - that map is only a few months old. The bridge is not dead. The DOT just finished the gravel road to the Ketchikan end of that bridge - at the cost of $8M per mile, or did you miss that?

It's time people stopped listening to campaign rhetoric, and looked at what the candidates are actually doing and have done.

Palin loves to say that she got rid of the governor's cook, which angered her kids. She never tells the truth, which is that she decided to move back to her own house in Wasilla, so the cook in the governor's mansion was not needed. Also, the "cost-cutting" Palin charged Alaska per-diems while she lived in her own house, as well as travel expenses that arose from that personal decision to live in Wasilla.

 

[LowlyPion]

But it says that they did a PD review too and came up empty:

That's a disingenuous argument given that they say their records only go back 6 years as mandated, and conveniently now apparently would not include the Palin years.

I do not think Palin was aware of this; it was 100% the call of the Chief. He needed to cut some budget items so he cut funding for rape kits roughly in half, but they were still paid out from what I can see.

When it suits you then she is not quite the executive in charge that you would want to paint in your pretense that she has adequate executive experience. As I said before there's no other way to take it but that it's pushing the Right Wing Faith Based Agenda under the guise of Fiscal Frugality. It's sad how budget cuts can be used in mean-spirited public policy isn't it. That hardly gives any comfort in thinking these other Faith Based beliefs won't as well be pushed as policy.

There was a previous thread here where it was mentioned that evolution is like gravity, we know it exists, it's just "how" it functions that is questioned. But sometimes there are pieces of knowledge that will "seem" to be pure common sense, even to the brightest minds, that later turn out to be wrong.

You've provided no compelling reason to believe the Christian Creation Myth or its more recent makeover as Intelligent Design deserves any place outside the study of Religion. Your interest in pretending that it represents some alternate scientific theory is simply antithetical to scientific thought. If you want critical minds to consider what such Faith Based concepts might hold for Science, then by all means ply those wares in a Bible College, without confusing younger minds with such fake science, at a time they are grappling still with understanding Mendel's genetics experiments. No teaching Santa Claus in Science class.

 

[NeoDevin]

WheelsRCool,

I'm still waiting for some examples (with references) of ``alternative explanations [to evolution] as well, albeit lesser-known, that are not creationist.''

You make a lot of claims that you never back up.

 

[Ben Niehoff]

I think it would be great to teach Creationism in schools -- in Cultural History, Literature, or Creative Writing classes. Not in Science.

While we're at it, let's learn about some other religions' creation stories, too. They all have one. A bit of expanded cultural instruction would help a lot of Americans see the bigger picture. And then when they go to science class, they can learn about reality, rather than politics and mythology.

 

[WheelsRCool]

The Bridge project is still alive and well, and the original bridge is still one of the bridges under consideration in the $97M planning project. Just look at the AK DOT map that I linked - again, look at the date on that map - that map is only a few months old. The bridge is not dead. The DOT just finished the gravel road to the Ketchikan end of that bridge - at the cost of $8M per mile, or did you miss that?

The road being built doesn't mean the Bridge to Nowhere is still supported; as said, it is a $26 million road, a far cry short of the $398 million Bridge to Nowhere project. They are planning to develop the area more, and considering alternatives to the Bridge to Nowhere - one of these is a bridge that would utilize this particular road, but that bridge has a pricetag of $254 million, still too expensive.

In the article you linked and one I linked, it said they ended the Bridge to Nowhere and are considering alternatives (alternative bridges included).

The original Bridge to Nowhere itself cannot still be under consideration because $97 million will not afford it.

http://www.propublica.org/feature/palin-admin-oversaw-26-million-road-to-nowhere-917/

Governor Palin was urged by government watchdogs not to build the road either, that it would be wasteful, but she went and built it anyway, so I can only imagine she did so because of plans to develop the area further.

Palin loves to say that she got rid of the governor's cook, which angered her kids.

So what if it did? She's the parent, if she wants to get rid of the cook, that's her call.

She never tells the truth, which is that she decided to move back to her own house in Wasilla, so the cook in the governor's mansion was not needed. Also, the "cost-cutting" Palin charged Alaska per-diems while she lived in her own house, as well as travel expenses that arose from that personal decision to live in Wasilla.

Billing the state while staying at home I think can be questionable, but she spent far less than her predecessor on travel expenses, and flies coach: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/08/AR2008090803088.html

That's a disingenuous argument given that they say their records only go back 6 years as mandated, and conveniently now apparently would not include the Palin years.

It says the financial computer system goes back to 2000, and the accounts receivable backup documentation back six years, per their records retention schedule; the crime stats go from 2007 back to 1994, so I take it that the financial computer system goes from 2007 to 2000, and the accounts receivable documentation from 2000 to 1994.

As it stands right now, there is no record that anyone paid for a rape kit from the time Fallon became Chief of Police to the time the legislature made it law that rape kits are paid for by the state.

When it suits you then she is not quite the executive in charge that you would want to paint in your pretense that she has adequate executive experience.

She has more executive experience than Senator McCain, Senator Obama, and Senator Biden. If I had a choice between her or someone like Mitt Romney, then I would choose Mitt Romney. But I have a choice between Senator McCain and Governor Palin, or Senator Obama and Senator Biden, because of my various political, economic, etc...beliefs, I choose McCain/Palin. Because of your beliefs, you overall choose Obama/Biden I am guessing.

As I said before there's no other way to take it but that it's pushing the Right Wing Faith Based Agenda under the guise of Fiscal Frugality. It's sad how budget cuts can be used in mean-spirited public policy isn't it. That hardly gives any comfort in thinking these other Faith Based beliefs won't as well be pushed as policy.

What "right-wing faith-based agenda" is she pushing? Furthermore, are you are plenty comfortable considering many of the faiths of the Left that Senator Obama, if elected, may push? Remember, he said in a speech to Northwestern University: "Our individual salvation depends on collective salvation."

http://obama.senate.gov/speech/060616-northwestern_un/

He said during the Columbia forum that he wants to "make government cool again."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080912/pl_politico/21166

He clearly has a very large faith in the capabilities of government and a very Marxist-influenced philosophy regarding it (our collective salvation is from our individual salavation, not the other way around).

You've provided no compelling reason to believe the Christian Creation Myth or its more recent makeover as Intelligent Design deserves any place outside the study of Religion. Your interest in pretending that it represents some alternate scientific theory is simply antithetical to scientific thought.

I never said it was an alternative scientific theory.

If you want critical minds to consider what such Faith Based concepts might hold for Science, then by all means ply those wares in a Bible College, without confusing younger minds with such fake science, at a time they are grappling still with understanding Mendel's genetics experiments. No teaching Santa Claus in Science class.

My point is just to always be critical.

I'm still waiting for some examples (with references) of ``alternative explanations [to evolution] as well, albeit lesser-known, that are not creationist.''

You make a lot of claims that you never back up.

I provided you with one, although I concede I shouldn't have worded it like that. There aren't really any "alternative theories" of evolution (except for maybe one for microorganisms); there are different theories of evolution, but unless one believes we were all just "created," evolution is really the only theory available.

As I said, I just want students to always be critical.

 

[LowlyPion]

As it stands right now, there is no record that anyone paid for a rape kit from the time Fallon became Chief of Police to the time the legislature made it law that rape kits are paid for by the state.

This continues to be your disingenuous assertion based on incomplete records and against the statement of Chief Fallon as reported. It makes me wonder what your motivation is to be making unsupported assertions against evidence to the contrary.

 

[LowlyPion]

What "right-wing faith-based agenda" is she pushing?

Anti-abortion
Creationist
Anti-gay union
anti-stemcell research

 

[LowlyPion]

My point is just to always be critical.

Apparently this applies to Federalism as it relates to protecting ALL the people from the Establishment of state sponsored religion.

 

[Evo]

WheelsRCool,

I'm still waiting for some examples (with references) of ``alternative explanations [to evolution] as well, albeit lesser-known, that are not creationist.''

You make a lot of claims that you never back up.

WheelsRCool, you need to provide information when asked.

 

[WheelsRCool]

This continues to be your disingenuous assertion based on incomplete records and against the statement of Chief Fallon as reported. It makes me wonder what your motivation is to be making unsupported assertions against evidence to the contrary.

The only disingenious assertion is yours, considering there is no evidence whatsoever that anyone paid for a rape kit. Unless any hard evidence comes up, the claim has no basis.

Anti-abortion
Creationist
Anti-gay union
anti-stemcell research

And the records show she hasn't pushed these views onto anyone. And she isn't anti-gay union, she is against gay marriage.

As for stemcell research, she only opposes embryonic stem cell research, which one would expect from a pro-life person.

 

[WheelsRCool]

Apparently this applies to Federalism as it relates to protecting ALL the people from the Establishment of state sponsored religion.

But how exactly do you determine what is a religion? Portions of environmentalism can be classified as religion, while much else as science. Creationism is regarded as religion, but if some scientist says that there is scientific evidence that shows evolutionary theory (or parts of it) are wrong, I say just address them and shoot them down.

WheelsRCool, you need to provide information when asked.

I provided him with an example in a previous post, Lamarckism for microorganisms, however I realize what I said was wrong, there can be different theories about evolution, but no real alternative except religion (as pointed out, it's like gravity, it's a theory, but what alternative to gravity is there?).

 

[quadraphonics]

(as pointed out, it's like gravity, it's a theory, but what alternative to gravity is there?).

Intelligent Falling

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_falling

 

[turbo]

The only disingenious assertion is yours, considering there is no evidence whatsoever that anyone paid for a rape kit. Unless any hard evidence comes up, the claim has no basis.

Please show some links to support your claims that rape victims were not made to pay for their own medical examinations. Mainstream press seems to have concluded otherwise.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/21/palin.rape.exams/?iref=hpmostpop

The Alaska Legislature agreed. The bill passed unanimously with the support of the Alaska Department of Public Safety, the Alaska Peace Officers Association and more than two dozen co-sponsors.

After it became law, Wasilla's police chief told the local paper, The Frontiersman, that it would cost the city $5,000 to $14,000 a year -- money that he'd have to find.

"In the past, we've charged the cost of the exams to the victim's insurance company when possible," Fannon was quoted as saying. "I just don't want to see any more burden on the taxpayer."

He suggested the criminals should pay as restitution if and when they're convicted. Repeated attempts to reach Fannon for comment were unsuccessful.

If rape victims are made to pay for the forensic examinations necessary to prove the guilt of their attackers, then home-owners should be made to pay for police to investigate burglaries, victims of fraud or theft should be made to pay the police to investigate the crimes perpetrated against them, etc, etc, etc. Why are victimized women singled out? Do you have a good reason, or are you going to repeat Palin's campaign rhetoric (we call those lies in Maine)?

 

[LowlyPion]

She has more executive experience than Senator McCain, Senator Obama, and Senator Biden.

And this above all is so untrue.

You wish to confuse in the public mind that Executive Branch experience translates somehow mystically to just executive experience and that somehow Legislative Branch experience means that people are retarded.

At this point we have serving before us an example of one of the arguably more retarded Presidents to serve. And he came with the experience of running Texas, a State arguably facing far greater complexity than outback massively income surplus Alaska. And a lot of good that's done us, as the Republic stands teetering on the brink of decline, occasioned by ineptness.

Then there is Carly Fiorina - McCain's own economic adviser - says neither Palin nor McCain could run a large corporation. (And yes later after getting her ears reamed out by the McCain Campaign, tried to save by saying Obama and Biden couldn't either.)

The point of course is that Palin after making such idiotic comments as she can see Russia from Alaska and that qualifies her for anything more than a drivers license hardly shows that she is even up to the already low standards that the Nation has been subjected to the last 8 years - less the now just FOUR months to go (YEAH!) until he is at last put out to pasture and out national nap-time is over.

 

[mathwonk]

my wife's friend came home from church this week with a button that said:

" jesus was a community organizer, pontius pilate was a governor."i apologize if i have posted this before, i am getting old.

(but maybe not quite senile.)

 

[LowlyPion]

The only disingenious assertion is yours, considering there is no evidence whatsoever that anyone paid for a rape kit. Unless any hard evidence comes up, the claim has no basis.

Gee, if they didn't pay then, there wouldn't be any record. But to confound your point further the fact that the town can find no charges even today suggests that they either don't pay or the rape kits in question aren't expensed separately in the system. It is not for me to prove that there are rape kits provided rather it is for you to show that the town has ever paid for kits and in the doing did so yearly in proportion to the rape statistics cited by the Police Department

 

[turbo]

my wife's friend came home from church this week with a button that said:

" jesus was a community organizer, pontius pilate was a governor."

Thank you. I'd like to have one of those buttons. My wife and I have done stuff for our local communities, and when she was out of work for a while due to the after-effects of an auto accident, she drove and delivered for "meals on wheels". She was so disappointed by the lack of quality of some of the meals that she delivered, that she spent time and money baking biscuits, desserts, and other Maine staples like baked beans so that she could give treats to old folks who were home-bound and were upset with the poor quality of the food from the program.

 

[WheelsRCool]

Please show some links to support your claims that rape victims were not made to pay for their own medical examinations. Mainstream press seems to have concluded otherwise.

The mainstream press can "conclude" what they want, but unless there is any proof that rape victims were charged for rape kits, it is all circumstantial.

If rape victims are made to pay for the forensic examinations necessary to prove the guilt of their attackers, then home-owners should be made to pay for police to investigate burglaries, victims of fraud or theft should be made to pay the police to investigate the crimes perpetrated against them, etc, etc, etc. Why are victimized women singled out? Do you have a good reason, or are you going to repeat Palin's campaign rhetoric (we call those lies in Maine)?

I do not agree with that, and I highly doubt Governor Palin does either. Like I said, the Chief went about it poorly. Let me ask you, do you think that because Senator Obama voted against the Born Alive Infant Protection Act it means that he actually "supports infanticide?" Even if one considers it infanticide, to say he actually "supports" it, I'd call a stretch. He obviously doesn't see it that way. I would imagine it is the same with Governor Palin and rape kits if she was aware of the practice, which I do not think she was as I see no religious reason to make a rape victim pay for their rape kit. As far as the evidence shows, no one was ever made to pay for their rape kit during her time as mayor.

I would think if someone was, they'd have come forth by now.

If it comes out someone did, then that will change things.

And this above all is so untrue.

You wish to confuse in the public mind that Executive Branch experience translates somehow mystically to just executive experience and that somehow Legislative Branch experience means that people are retarded.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said anyone was "retarded." But being a Senator doesn't mean you are actually running anything.

At this point we have serving before us an example of one of the arguably more retarded Presidents to serve. And he came with the experience of running Texas, a State arguably facing far greater complexity than outback massively income surplus Alaska. And a lot of good that's done us, as the Republic stands teetering on the brink of decline, occasioned by ineptness.

I disagree.

Then there is Carly Fiorina - McCain's own economic adviser - says neither Palin nor McCain could run a large corporation. (And yes later after getting her ears reamed out by the McCain Campaign, tried to save by saying Obama and Biden couldn't either.)

Yes, and Senator Biden said that Senator Obama doesn't have the experience to be President. People make goofs. I would disagree with Fiorina though, as Palin did run a business, albeit a very small one.

The point of course is that Palin after making such idiotic comments as she can see Russia from Alaska and that qualifies her for anything more than a drivers license hardly shows that she is even up to the already low standards that the Nation has been subjected to the last 8 years - less the now just FOUR months to go (YEAH!) until he is at last put out to pasture and out national nap-time is over.

Where did she ever claim being able to "see Russia" qualifies her for anything? Furthermore, if you view her, the Republican VP choice, as lacking qualifications, how do you see Senator Obama, the Democrat Presidential choice, as any more qualified?

Both campaigns have dirt on each other, both have said stupid things, etc...one can go back and dig up plenty of stupid things said by both McCain and Obama.

Gee, if they didn't pay then, there wouldn't be any record. But to confound your point further the fact that the town can find no charges even today suggests that they either don't pay or the rape kits in question aren't expensed separately in the system. It is not for me to prove that there are rape kits provided rather it is for you to show that the town has ever paid for kits and in the doing did so yearly in proportion to the rape statistics cited by the Police Department

I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this. I would prefer more evidence on this as well, but as of now, there isn't enough evidence to show that anyone was forced to pay for a rape kit, and no one has come forth claiming they were. It is a legitimate question to ask, but there isn't enough information right now.

 

[turbo]

The mainstream press can "conclude" what they want, but unless there is any proof that rape victims were charged for rape kits, it is all circumstantial.


I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this. I would prefer more evidence on this as well, but as of now, there isn't enough evidence to show that anyone was forced to pay for a rape kit, and no one has come forth claiming they were. It is a legitimate question to ask, but there isn't enough information right now.

There is plenty of information for CNN, although apparently it hasn't filtered into the "news" that you subscribe to.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/21/palin.rape.exams/?iref=hpmostpop

 

[Evo]

Wheels also said that it should be left to the states to decide.

I remember when it was left for the states to decide. Only New York and California allowed abortions. (This was my freshman English essay "A case for Abortion in the United States").

What happened was that only the wealthy could afford to fly across country to get abortions and all the rest were left to botched self abortions, back street abortions, or suicide. The death and mutilation of women and young girls trying to abort without legal medical assistance was horrendous. Not to mention damage to fetuses that did not abort.

Is this what we want to go back to? Coat hanger abortions? Do we want women forced into barbaric illegal abortions? Because you know what? Making abortions illegal doesn't stop abortions, it just forces women and girls into potentially deadly situations.

It's time for all of the pro-lifers that think if abortion is illegal, something magical and wonderful is going to happen to get a clue.

I went to school with girls that had illegal abortions and I will always blame the people that made it illegal for what happened to them.

I lived through that time, I doubt that many here that are against abortion lived through that.

 

[LowlyPion]

The mainstream press can "conclude" what they want, but unless there is any proof that rape victims were charged for rape kits, it is all circumstantial.

If they weren't provided there would be no charges now would there. And if they weren't provided and no contraceptive was offered there wouldn't be any charges for that either. Since Chief Fallon mentioned a specific expense burden then he was either lying that those expenses exist, or those expenses are buried in office supplies or some other spurious account.

Let me ask you, do you think that because Senator Obama ...

This isn't about Obama. We're talking about Palin's lack of experience and her unsuitability for the office.

Where did she ever claim being able to "see Russia" qualifies her for anything?

GIBSON: What insight into Russian actions, particularly in the last couple of weeks, does the proximity of the state give you?

PALIN: They're our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.