News Palin pick an insult to our intelligence

[russ_watters]

Perhaps this is something for another thread, but can someone explain to me this "90%" (or whatever the number is) thing? Where does it come from/what does it mean exactly? Bush is President, not a Senator, so he doesn't vote and up until last year he vetoed nothing, so what does it really mean to say that McCain voted with him 90% of the time? Does it just mean that he's on the winning side of 90% of passed bills? That would make sense since as a moderate, he's a swing vote.

[edit] Ok, here it is - they do an analysis of his voting record vs Bush's states positions. Interestingly enough, Obama also has a strong record of voting with his party's position:

Also, Obama voted in line with fellow Senate Democrats 97 percent of the time in 2007 and 2005, and 96 percent of the time in 2006, according to CQ.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/is_it_true_john_mccain_voted_with.html

Since it makes a good sound-byte, I'm sure he'll keep using it, but it seems to me that there is some danger in it because of his own record.

There may be even more danger in this:

In 1999, Barack Obama was faced with a difficult vote in the Illinois legislature — to support a bill that would let some juveniles be tried as adults, a position that risked drawing fire from African-Americans, or to oppose it, possibly undermining his image as a tough-on-crime moderate.

In the end, Mr. Obama chose neither to vote for nor against the bill. He voted “present,” effectively sidestepping the issue, an option he invoked nearly 130 times as a state senator.

Sometimes the “present’ votes were in line with instructions from Democratic leaders or because he objected to provisions in bills that he might otherwise support. At other times, Mr. Obama voted present on questions that had overwhelming bipartisan support. In at least a few cases, the issue was politically sensitive.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/us/politics/20obama.html

It is tough to argue that you are a change-minded independent thinker when you won't take a stand on a tough issues. It's been one of the biggest criticisms of him in the campaign and his record bears it out.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Perhaps this is something for another thread, but can someone explain to me this "90%" (or whatever the number is) thing?

Although the President does not vote in the Senate, he does make his position known on issues that come up before the Senate. I don't know if this site is partisan, but I link to it none the less.
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/is_it_true_john_mccain_voted_with.html"

 

[LowlyPion]

Some people consider having religious beliefs to be a mental illness. That would mean that most, if not all presidents of the United States, and those running this year, were, or are somewhat koo koo. Sometimes you got to just bite the bullet ,and hope it's not going to be worse than you think. ;-)

Now there is a fallacious argument. No one has suggested that having religious beliefs is a mental illness. In that regard I think Obama is a regular at church and has indicated that he prays for inner strength and for good outcomes for the country and its people.

Where religious belief crosses the line is when it seeks to intrude into governing the people and the state. Where one group would subject its belief structure on the remainder. In this regard Obama does not seek to impose his religion on others, except perhaps by the force of his example.

Palin on the other hand would embrace the extreme right wing activism and ban books - she fired the town librarian because she would not ban books, She would allow exposing school children to faith based beliefs like Intelligent design, or would ban abortions out of some misguided belief that viable life begins at conception. She would ban gay marriages because apparently her Pentecostal sect, along with others in the extreme right, rather than embrace New Testament notions about loving and treating everyone equally, would deny state protections afforded opposite sex partners to those that might choose same sex partners. A rather hypocritical asymmetry if you ask me.

While no one begrudges the Pentecostals their beliefs and legislates against them, the idea that their extreme beliefs would be imposed on others, that they would become the basis of being embodied in laws that would force others to their belief, is certainly every bit as alarming as the rise of any totalitarian regime.

The separation of church and state is one of the delineated protections for the few against the tyranny of the many, just as an elected form of government with balanced authorities is a protection for the many against the tyranny of the few.

 

[LowlyPion]

I hear the question "what are her accomplishments?" and then I look to the Obama camp...

Let me ask again. Just what are those accomplishments?

What makes her qualified in the least to be anything but a National Embarrassment if she were to ever by some unfortunate happenstance assume the office of President?

I take the failure to offer any actual specifics to be an admission that she is totally unqualified. (Btw, throwing out rocking the Alaskan State House is a nothing argument. What substantive decisions has she pushed through besides signing her own stay at home per diems and selling an airplane?)

 

[castlegates]

"To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” -Louis L'Amour

Obviosly this person does not understand the bill of rights, as he seeks to take them away.

Jane Auer:
Voting is one of the few things where boycotting in protest clearly makes the problem worse rather than better.

The current popularity contest, and all those before it, and all those after, guarantees a road to failure.

Robert M. Hutchins:
The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush. It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment.

and I hope it starves to death.

Thomas Jefferson:
Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government.

Spoken like a true politician.

 

[LightbulbSun]

She's bubbly, Obama's charismatic. Seems to me they are equally qualified! C'mon. Why is Obama even in the race? He made a good speech at a national convention 8 years ago that made him popular. That's it. He's too inexperienced to have a real track record or real political clout and when he speaks, there is no substance, just applause-lines. What makes this so ironic is the Palin pick beats the Dems at their own game. They made this a popularity contest and Repubs just one-upped them at it and are now winning.

I wasn't sure about this pick at first, but now I'm loving it for the irony it creates and the mirror it points at Obama. It is tough for him to bash her for being all looks and no substance because some of that is going to bounce right back at him.

Oh, and Palin does have something in her resume that paints her as a true maverick. That business with her taking down the top brass of her own party in Alaska is very impressive to me. What does Obama have on his record that paints him as a reformer as he claims to be?

FWIW, Obama is right to pound on McCain's voting with Bush for the past 8 years, but McCain does have an easy out: he has a proven track record as a "maverick" prior to that (and oh, by the way, what was Obama doing prior to 8 years ago?). The danger for Obama that it allows McCain to highlight his own record as a maverick and point out Obama's lack of a record means that it may be a dangerous issue for Obama.


[edit] Oh - the McCain-Feingold Act was 2002. I didn't realize that it was so recent. Bush was President then, but Obama wasn't even in the Senate yet.

You can't deny though that Biden owns Palin in foreign policy which is why Obama should still have the upperhand. Let's not also forget Palin supports retarded ideologies such as pro-life, creationism etc. She hates smart people like you Russ and wants to recreate the Dark Ages with her policies. That alone makes me give my vote to Obama and Biden. When the other side reeks so badly of anti-intellectualism, go with the other side, even if that other side may very well turn out to be all talk and no substance.

 

[Gokul43201]

If she is causing this much commotion on an "intellectual" forum, she must be doing something right. LOL

If by "right" you mean "being a nutjob crackpot", then yes ,you're right.

I hear the question "what are her accomplishments?" and then I look to the Obama camp...

Obama accomplishments at the National level:

1. He wrote the portion on private jet usage in the 2007 lobbying practices and disclosures bill that was signed into law despite opposition from folks like Ted Stevens. While this is virtually unknown, everyone seems to have heard about Palin selling off the jet purchased by Murkowski.

2. With Republican Senator Tom Coburn, Obama wrote the federal accountability and transparency bill that was signed into law last year.

3. He was lead sponsor of a bill to provide relief and promote democracy in the Democratic Republic of Congo, which was signed into law in December 2006 (this during a Republican controlled Congress).

4. With Republican Sen. Richard Lugar, Obama co-wrote the anti-proliferation law that enhances U.S. ability to take down conventional weapons stockpiles and to intercept WMD material.

5. Obama's Dignity for Wounded Warriors bill was absorbed into the Dignified Treatment of Wounded Warriors Act that was passed last year.

Those are the ones I recall right away. And for 2 of the nearly 4 years that Obama's been in the Senate, the Republicans controlled it and blocked virtually every Democrat-sponsored bill from even making it to the floor.

This is too rich.

She has rocked to boat in Alaska by going against the political grain of her own party without regard to "how things are done here". She has more cohonas than Sen Obama so far as I've seen.

Despite the spelling, I think I get the sexist reference.

As for the "how things are done here" bit, I wonder if McCain will repeat his "$3 million earmark to study the DNA of bears in Montana" outrage when it becomes known that Palin requested a $3.2 million earmark to study the DNA of seals in Alaska.

 

[LowlyPion]

Spoken like a true politician.

Indeed your failure to list any of her ACTUAL accomplishments - preferring instead apparently to do a Bartleby's - is what is really spoken like a true Karl Rove type of politician. The failure to provide such a list merely confirms that your account is overdrawn in representing that the woman has the kind of chops to execute her office with competence.

 

[turbo]

McCain has gotten himself into a pickle. Daily, it seems, new details come out about ethical lapses in Palin's unvetted past. Today, Bloomberg press is carrying a story summarizing a few of the ethical lapses that have come to light to date.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20080911/pl_bloomberg/alulrclkxig4;_ylt=As4KCn.Pv6njgOHBQ.Icl.Ws0NUE

McCain is in a tough spot. If this stuff keeps coming out, his only recourse will be to continue lies, distortions and attack ads to distract voters from her problems. He can't dump Palin, or the GOP women and evangelicals will be outraged. If she manages to come up with some believable personal reason to withdraw from the ticket voluntarily, her supporters will still believe that she was forced out, and that bodes ill for McCain. Assuming that she does withdraw, McCain has yet another problem. He has repeatedly called her the "most qualified" VP choice, so who (with any real qualifications) is going to want to take the VP candidate slot after she's gone? Would Pawlenty agree to run with McCain after being passed over initially? Not likely.

For good or ill, McCain is stuck with Palin.

Even the Wall Street Journal is chiming in, citing letters from Palin's ethics adviser, former US Attorney Wevley Shea in which he warned her that the troopergate ethics problem was "grave" and warning her that she should not try to evade the bipartisan legislative investigation into the actions of her aides and herself in trying to get trooper Wooten fired, and then firing the public safety commissioner when he refused to fire Wooten.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122109403841221751.html?mod=hpp_us_whats_news

 

[drankin]

Let me ask again. Just what are those accomplishments?

What makes her qualified in the least to be anything but a National Embarrassment if she were to ever by some unfortunate happenstance assume the office of President?

I take the failure to offer any actual specifics to be an admission that she is totally unqualified. (Btw, throwing out rocking the Alaskan State House is a nothing argument. What substantive decisions has she pushed through besides signing her own stay at home per diems and selling an airplane?)

I think his point is that there is a lack of accomplishments for both Obama and Palin. So it's pointless to show her as lacking and disregard Obamas likewise lack of accomplishment. And she is only running as VP.

 

[muppet]

I didn't know that Obama had helped to write US law. Do people really not consider that a substantial achievement with direct relevance to his candidature?
I really loathe the thought of a creationist getting anwhere near the whitehouse. The doctrine flies in the face of an overwhelming body of scientific evidence, and if she thinks it should be taught in schools then she's asserting that her own religious views (which the overwhelming majority of Christians don't believe) should be inflicted on millions compulsorily, which hardly accords with the idea of a secular state affording people the freedom to exercise their own personal views, does it? She can't even really appeal to some wishy-washy garbage about providing a balanced viewpoint (or similar insubstantial nonsense) without including aspects of other religious teachings- the Qu'ran's description of God making man from a germ-cell, anyone? (which is, of course, substantially nearer the mark )

 

[Evo]

The Young Earth Creationist in my office, the one that I've mentioned that thinks that dinosaurs are a Darwinist conspiracy and the skeletons are fake is voting Palin-McCain. He's thrilled as he feels it won't be long before we get creationism taught in public schools with a Palin-McCain ticket, he's anti-evolution, anti-stem cell research, anti-gays, anti-abortion. Listening to him talking about how America is going to be purged of sin is about to make me bust a blood vessel. His church group is actively campaining.

 

[LowlyPion]

I think his point is that there is a lack of accomplishments for both Obama and Palin. So it's pointless to show her as lacking and disregard Obamas likewise lack of accomplishment. And she is only running as VP.

Except of course that Palin has yet to carry on substantive policy discussion or demonstrate any particular knowledge about anything, except her far right morals that she would impose on others.

The fact that you continue to skate around the issue, deny accomplishments, throw up the false argument about Obama, merely confirms that you know pretty well how miserably short her actual record of serious accomplishment is and how unsuitable she would be by education and thoughtful analysis of the issues, to serve and protect the laws and rights of all individuals in the country, and not just those of her Pentecostal faith.

 

[LowlyPion]

The Young Earth Creationist in my office, the one that I've mentioned that thinks that dinosaurs are a Darwinist conspiracy and the skeletons are fake is voting Palin-McCain. He's thrilled as he feels it won't be long before we get creationism taught in public schools with a Palin-McCain ticket, he's anti-evolution, anti-stem cell research, anti-gays, anti-abortion. Listening to him talking about how America is going to be purged of sin is about to make me bust a blood vessel. His church group is actively campaining.

We can expect people like that to be OK with meddling in the private lives of others, as though imbued with Divine Right, though they surely would take offense if any attempted to meddle in theirs.

All I can say is such people are not representing the central spirit of the New Testament, having lost their way in the wilderness of the various translations that abounded to build the early church to win pagans over. The real Spirit of loving your neighbor and not imposing your beliefs on others, if they are not drawn to the Light, seems lost on them. They've bought the lie that The Bible is a Literal message. Too bad for them. Too bad for us that are subjected to such intolerance.

 

[Evo]

You're about to reach post 666 LowlyPion...

 

[LowlyPion]

You're about to reach post 666 LowlyPion...

It'll match the tattoo on my scalp?

 

[LowlyPion]

For good or ill, McCain is stuck with Palin.

When souls are sold - all sales are final.

He's made his Faustian bargain with the Far Right and with it has cast his honor to the side.

 

[drankin]

We can expect people like that to be OK with meddling in the private lives of others, as though imbued with Divine Right, though they surely would take offense if any attempted to meddle in theirs.

All I can say is such people are not representing the central spirit of the New Testament, having lost their way in the wilderness of the various translations that abounded to build the early church to win pagans over. The real Spirit of loving your neighbor and not imposing your beliefs on others, if they are not drawn to the Light, seems lost on them. They've bought the lie that The Bible is a Literal message. Too bad for them. Too bad for us that are subjected to such intolerance.

This is interesting. I didn't realize you were such a theologian. Would you care to cite the relevant verse to back up your opinion that "such people" aren't actually being followers of the New Testament? I think you are stepping outside of the boundaries of the PF forum. I'm surprised Evo is allowing you to go on about your religious beliefs.

 

[LowlyPion]

This is interesting. I didn't realize you were such a theologian. Would you care to cite the relevant verse to back up your opinion that "such people" aren't actually being followers of the New Testament? I think you are stepping outside of the boundaries of the PF forum. I'm surprised Evo is allowing you to go on about your religious beliefs.

If censorship is your thing - it's apparently Palin's as witnessed by the firing of the Wasilla Librarian - then by all means. I'm not invested in that observation. It's merely my opinion, and it's not my intention or interest to debate the point, except I would note that religion has become a central issue of the campaign, and it will become increasingly difficult to avoid its mention with the kind of polarizations that the McCain-Rove Cadres are promoting in order to distract from the disastrous Republican stewardship of the economy and foreign policy.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I didn't know that Obama had helped to write US law.

It's his job as Senator.

 

[Gokul43201]

I think his point is that there is a lack of accomplishments for both Obama and Palin. So it's pointless to show her as lacking and disregard Obamas likewise lack of accomplishment.

It seems you may have missed post #37.

And she is only running as VP.

For someone that has at least a 20% chance of not surviving the first couple of years in office.

 

[LowlyPion]

You're about to reach post 666 LowlyPion...

Don't look now.

 

[Evo]

Don't look now.

How do you take a snapshot of that? I know how to print screen.

 

[LowlyPion]

How do you take a snapshot of that? I know how to print screen.

If you don't have it now - too late.

The devil made me do it.

 

[lisab]

If you don't have it now - too late.

The devil made me do it.

Evo, can't you delete a post ?

 

[LowlyPion]

Evo, can't you delete a post ?

Yeah. But which one?

Decisions. Decisions.

 

[Evo]

Evo, can't you delete a post ?

Yes, yes, I can.

Yeah. But which one?

Decisions. Decisions.

Just as long as it's one that counts. Buwahahaha.

 

[koolmodee]

Watch what Matt Damon has to say on Palin.

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=C6urw_PWHYk

 

[LowlyPion]

Yes, yes, I can.

Just as long as it's one that counts. Buwahahaha.

You better keep your running shoes on then.

 

[muppet]

It's his job as Senator.

Huh. Quite different to the UK then; here most members of parliament just decide on Acts put before them by the cabinet.